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lost
Apr 2, 2009 17:53:20 GMT -5
Post by Travis2261 on Apr 2, 2009 17:53:20 GMT -5
im a huge fan of lost, are there any losties on board?.this season may be the best since the first one.
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lost
Apr 3, 2009 6:08:56 GMT -5
Post by CRAMBAM on Apr 3, 2009 6:08:56 GMT -5
Definitely a big Lost fan here.
How about this as a general rule--no spoilers about a show until the episode airs. Once the episode airs, it's all fair game and discuss as you see fit. Those who haven't seen that episode need to read at their own risk, especially those not on the Eastern time zone.
I still have issues with the idea that you can't change anything. I get the whole, "everything happened" concept. What they should have done was explain it that from their point of view, the timeline is like a hotwheel loop where they went back, and forward, but from their perspective, it's always going in one direction.
That said, a killer like Sayid would have put a bullet in Ben's head too. Sayid wasn't in SOOOO much of a hurry that he couldn't finish the job.
The basic premise is that you can't create a paradox, and I still say, "why not?" What's to stop someone from killing someone that didn't die? What's to stop Sayid from saying, "to hell with this," and to make sure Ben is dead?
If I'm one of the future people, I would make it a point to try to create at least one paradox, even if it's something small, like finding a tree that I know exists in 2007, and chopping it down.
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lost
Apr 3, 2009 20:40:57 GMT -5
Post by Travis2261 on Apr 3, 2009 20:40:57 GMT -5
i truly beleive that this storyline relates to a long asked question.if you could go back in time and kill hitler as a child,would you?.who is to say what happened would still happen only with someone else in that role.call it kharma or divine intervention is our course not set, no matter the crew.
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Jor-El
Junior Member
Posts: 97
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lost
Apr 3, 2009 21:56:41 GMT -5
Post by Jor-El on Apr 3, 2009 21:56:41 GMT -5
Definitely a big Lost fan here. I mentioned this elsewhere...JJ Abrams is the producer of 'Lost', correct? So, would this not mean you enjoy his work? I only ask since elsewhere you implied (unless I misunderstood) that he was of the same ilk as Braga/Berman. That can't be, though, as they can't write. And he apparantly can. Sorry if this isn't the place for the question. --Gary 7--
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lost
Apr 3, 2009 23:25:01 GMT -5
Post by CRAMBAM on Apr 3, 2009 23:25:01 GMT -5
No question I enjoy Lost. I don't think he is of the same ilk as B&B. My big issues with him are ignorance of the subject matter, a disregard of canon, and the biggest issue was how poorly he handled the Shatner situation. But talent? He has it--B&B do not.
Abrams, unlike B&B, actually has created things on his own that have been successful. He's not like a Ron Moore, who has never done a thing outside of someone else's franchise.
And it's a fair question.
As for whether I would kill Hitler, the real issue becomes the devil you know v. the devil you don't know.
If I kill Hitler, then when I travel back in time, how would I know to kill Hitler? It would be a paradox. THAT is what has me curious and why I actually wanted to see Sayid succeed.
An interesting Twilight Zone episode saw some nanny travel back in time and be Hitler's nanny. She ended up drowning herself and the baby, not realizing that the Hitler family adopted another baby to replace the kid.
I actually think that the odds are, a world where Hitler is killed as a baby would be much different, but many lives would have been saved.
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Jor-El
Junior Member
Posts: 97
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lost
Apr 4, 2009 0:37:21 GMT -5
Post by Jor-El on Apr 4, 2009 0:37:21 GMT -5
No question I enjoy Lost. I don't think he is of the same ilk as B&B. My big issues with him are ignorance of the subject matter, a disregard of canon, and the biggest issue was how poorly he handled the Shatner situation. But talent? He has it--B&B do not. Abrams, unlike B&B, actually has created things on his own that have been successful. He's not like a Ron Moore, who has never done a thing outside of someone else's franchise. And it's a fair question. As for whether I would kill Hitler, the real issue becomes the devil you know v. the devil you don't know. If I kill Hitler, then when I travel back in time, how would I know to kill Hitler? It would be a paradox. THAT is what has me curious and why I actually wanted to see Sayid succeed. An interesting Twilight Zone episode saw some nanny travel back in time and be Hitler's nanny. She ended up drowning herself and the baby, not realizing that the Hitler family adopted another baby to replace the kid. I actually think that the odds are, a world where Hitler is killed as a baby would be much different, but many lives would have been saved. I missed that Twilight Zone episode. Sounds good. Not having seen 'Lost' I didn't understand your Hitler reference until I read your post a second time, and saw the relevance with the TZ show. You mentioned Ron Moore--I think he created (at least worked on) a very good and sadly short lived series called "Good Vs Evil" on the Sci Fi channel long, long ago. Didn't he also create "Roswell"? I heard he did, but didn't catch that. As for the issues you pointed out you have with him, again, if we look at this as one of those alternate universes that cropped up from time to time, as opposed to this being the same Kirk/Spock/ect we saw in Classic trek and the movies, we're fine. I wish he had consulted with a Richard Arnold type given his lack of knowledge of the source. Maybe it can be viewed as an imaginary story (aren't they all?).... And to keep on topic...I'll have to check out "Lost" sometime.... --Gary 7--
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lost
Apr 4, 2009 18:58:16 GMT -5
Post by Travis2261 on Apr 4, 2009 18:58:16 GMT -5
this season is great because we are now seeing the dharma experiment in real time.all the previous seasons clues were dropped here and there.also we may finally learn where the others come from and there purpose.oh,and my view is even with hitler dead early some other monster would have took his place.there were other founders of the nazi party who were filled with hate.
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lost
Apr 4, 2009 19:16:14 GMT -5
Post by CRAMBAM on Apr 4, 2009 19:16:14 GMT -5
RDM did not create Roswell, he joined it in the season it got canceled. GvE didn't last because good or not, it didn't capture an audience.
Back to Lost, I agree, it's been an excellent season. Not as good as last year, but still outstanding.
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lost
Mar 14, 2012 20:13:32 GMT -5
Post by TrekBeatTK on Mar 14, 2012 20:13:32 GMT -5
Over on the AOL Lost board, I had been rewatching the series and posting my thoughts. I'm in the final season now, but thought some of you might be interested. Some words about how they work: 1) I'm watching in chronological order. I spent a good six months putting together a comprehensive timeline. I watched all the flashbacks first. I wanted to try it this way to highlight the places where the chronology is way off. Because of this system and the revelations of the finale, I am watching the "flash sideways" stuff last. So right now season 6 only covers island stuff.
Each reflection is broken into various sections. It will tell you what episode is covered by this post, followed by a section from the TIMELINE. This will essentially summarize the events of the episode, and sort them into proper order when needed. As no specific date was given for the Ajira flight in 2007, I'm calling them "AJIRA DAY 1" and so on. Right now the island is at AJIRA DAY 8.
After this comes the reflections. It's stuff that comes to mind as I watch the episode again. Some stuff inspires more thought than other stuff.
Then ANSWERED QUESTIONS, wherein I try to point out any time an episode actually answers a question posed by the show, be it large ("What is the Smoke Monster?") or small ("Why did Ben lie about that?")
UNANSWERED QUESTIONS is a longer section, where I muse about anything I feel the series left hanging in an episode, or the complications that arise from certain "answers" in the context of the show as a whole. They also range from large ("Why did no one see the lighthouse??") to small ("Why is Hurley called Hurley?")
Finally, I usually end with a few selections from my first round of reflections from when the shows first aired.
So my next post will be my most recent post to the Lost board (which now meets as a Yahoo group).
-TK
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lost
Mar 14, 2012 20:16:07 GMT -5
Post by TrekBeatTK on Mar 14, 2012 20:16:07 GMT -5
EPISODES COVERED: "Recon" and "Ab Aeterno"
TIMELINE: AJIRA DAY 7 Sawyer wakes Jin up back at Claire's shack Locke and his group return from the Temple Ilana's party arrive at the old beach camp Ilana tells Sun that she and Jin are candidates Richard finds Jack and Hurley Ilana leashes Ben to a tree, then tells him to dig his own grave Locke leads the group to a clearing to make camp Locke sends Sawyer in one of the outriggers to do reconnaissance on Hydra Island Ben tries to bargain with Miles to free him Richard takes Jack and Hurley to the Black Rock Richard wants to die Richard is immortal, and can't kill himself, but he wants Jack to light the fuse on a stick of dynamite to blow Richard up Hurley heads for safety, while Jack stays to talk to Richard Jack believes that they won't blow up because Jacob brought him for a reason The fuse fizzles out and they don't die Locke comes to see Ben. He frees him and offers to make him leader of the island when he leaves if Ben meets him over on Hydra Island Ben runs off and Ilana catches up with him Ben explains himself, and Ilana forgives him Ben returns to the beach Miles digs up Nikki and Paolo's diamonds Jack, Hurley and Richard arrive at the beach Widmore arrives at the island by submarine Claire attacks Kate for raising Aaron Locke breaks it up and slaps Claire Sawyer comes to the Ajira plane, and finds a pile of corpses dragged into the jungle Sawyer finds Zoey running in the jungle. She claims to be a survivor from the plane Locke apologizes to Kate Sawyer sees through Zoey's ruse and is caught Locke tells Kate he had a crazy mother Sawyer is brought to the submarine, past a locked room Sawyer is brought to Widmore Sawyer tells Widmore he will double-cross Locke in exchange for safe passage off the island Claire apologizes to Kate Sawyer tells Locke all about Widmore and his plan Sawyer talks to Kate by the campfire, saying that his real plan is to steal the sub with Kate while Locke and Widmore fight Ilana tells everyone about the candidates She says that Jacob told her Richard would know what to do next Richard says he doesn't know what to do Richard thinks they are all in hell, and leaves to go find Locke Hurley talks to Richard's wife, Isabella
AJIRA DAY 8 Richard goes to the spot where he buried his wife's necklace and digs it up Richard shouts that he changed his mind Hurley turns up, having followed Richard Hurley acts as medium so Richard can talk to Isabella Isabella tells Richard he has to stop the Man in Black Locke has been watching from a distance
REFLECTIONS: Sorry it's been so long since the last post, but I've been a little busy, and I've not been in the right frame of mind to sit down and do these.
"Recon" is another episode with no recap at the beginning.
It seemed a little odd to me that Sawyer was over at Claire's place. We haven't seen him since Locke took him to the cave. I guess Locke must have told him they would all meet up at Claire's place, though Sawyer doesn't seem to have any reaction to Claire's dwelling. This seems uncharacteristic for him.
The timeline of "Recon" in relation to "Dr. Linus" is very weird and hard to make out. I think I've worked it out about right above. The episodes are partially concurrent, which hasn't happened in awhile on Lost. This episode picks up right after "Sundown", with Locke still leading his people from the Temple. He has them make camp, then sends Sawyer to scope out Hydra Island. Now, the tricky thing is sorting out when he has time to go see Ben. He's almost never away from his camp. The only time is between sending Sawyer and the time he comes back to find Claire and Kate fighting. So that conversation with Ben must take place after he sends Sawyer. Here's the weird thing: he sends Sawyer seemingly expecting there to be someone on Hydra Island. But Widmore was only just arriving by sub at the end of "Dr. Linus". So did Locke somehow know they were coming, in the same way Jacob did? It's hard to work out how long some of this stuff takes too. By the time Sawyer gets to Hydra Island, Widmore is already there and has been setting up pylons. We know it takes at least a couple hours to get between islands (based on similar trips in season 3). Still, how long did it take Jack, Hurley and Richard to go all the way to the Black Rock and back to the beach? This all had to happen before Sawyer arrived. To add to my frustrations, didn't Locke tell Ben to meet him over on Hydra island? But in this episode, Locke isn't going there just yet. In fact, he tells his people they may be making camp for several days!
There's a moment when Locke tells Sawyer that now on the island "it's either kill or be killed. And I don't wanna be killed." I love the line, and the way Terry delivers it.
There are a lot of little reminiscing moments throughout this season. In this episode, Sawyer stops and has a little moment by the cages, and even finds Kate's dress (well, Alex's dresss, but the one Kate wore).
I like when Claire attacks Kate, and I love the way Locke deals with it. He's been pretending to be her father, and even though he's not really her father, he definitely acts like one here. He slaps her, and then basically puts her in a timeout. He is very authoritarian with her. It's a classic "you tell her you're sorry!" kind of moment. Oh, and any time someone tells me it's never right to hit a woman, here's another example where maybe it is. (Please do not take that as advocation of abuse! I know victims of abuse. No one should ever be hit without provocation, and I'd say it almost always has to be a physical provocation where she attacks first, and no permanent damage should ever be inflicted EVER.)
The scene with Kate where Locke reveals he had a crazy mother, and now has to deal with Claire being a crazy mother is interesting. He says he told her that the Others had her baby so that she would have something to hate, to focus her energy. It seems that this lie was a serious miscalculation on Locke's part. Consider: he took Claire but left Aaron with Miles and Sawyer. After they leave, he makes sure to bring all of them back to the island through Locke. So he had to know that Kate or whoever took the baby would return. It probably would have been better for him had he let her keep Aaron. It was a strategic blunder, I think, because it doesn't fit into the rest of his plan.
I also like that the real Locke had a crazy mother, and the fake Locke had a crazy mother.
I like that Sawyer gets to pull a long con again, just like he did way back in season 2. Here he's conning both Widmore and Locke, making them fight each other so that he can get what he wants. It's the same as when he played Jack and Locke against each other and took the guns. It also shows that Sawyer has no real allegiance to Locke; he simply wants off the island as soon as possible. This is reassuring, since Sayid has turned already.
And now we come to the rest of "Ab Aeterno". Almost all of the episode has been covered already, but here Richard's crisis of faith comes to a head and he begs the Man in Black to take him back. It's only the ghost of his wife that calls him back to his senses. Richard has loved her across centuries. He has never stopped loving her. This episode gives us a taste of the finale, since the whole show ends up being about connections between people like this.
ANSWERED QUESTIONS: We finally learn why Claire thought the Others had Aaron
UNANSWERED QUESTIONS: Who killed all the Ajira survivors back on Hydra Island? Were they already killed by Locke or by Ilana's people, or did Widmore's people do it? And for that matter, why were they all dragged off the beach? No matter what party killed them, I don't see why they were dragged off.
So was Sawyer sent to Hydra island specifically to find out about Widmore's people? Because as I mentioned, it seems they hadn't arrived yet when Locke sent him. He tells Sawyer that he's going to recruit the remaining Ajira passengers, but since we don't know if they were already dead, we don't know if he's lying.
Reflections from the vault... Wait, the dress Kate wore is still in the bear cage?
Locke was quite persuasive, wasn't he? The way he subtley said "Have you ever had someone you needed to hate?" He really does know how to push people's buttons doesn't he?
When Richard threw his little fit and said they were all dead, I was so annoyed. I really couldn't believe they were going to play the "we're all in hell" card AGAIN. This would make probably the 4th time it had been said.
I like the moment with Hurley and Richard talking to Isabella. ... It's also good to use Hurley's spanish, since that's a part of him that's mostly ignored.
Next Assignment: "The Package"
-TK
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lost
Mar 15, 2012 7:35:56 GMT -5
Post by CRAMBAM on Mar 15, 2012 7:35:56 GMT -5
It's hard to believe it's been over 7 1/2 years since that show premiered. I know for myself, I pretty much saw every episode once, and maybe a few finales twice.
It's going to be hard for me to remember most of the stuff. What might help a bit is that on top of the episode title, throw in the season it aired. But I see you're doing this chronologically, which is interesting to say the least.
I bet a really huge Lost fan with a LOT of time, could come up with a DVD set that is purely chronological.
It actually makes sense to watch the flash sideways last, since basically, they all happened in the far future, when everyone is dead.
Just skimming your post, I saw that Richard can't kill himself. What I don't remember is why. How can Jack blow him up if he can't blow himself up?
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lost
Mar 15, 2012 8:55:58 GMT -5
Post by TrekBeatTK on Mar 15, 2012 8:55:58 GMT -5
At this stage in the rewatch, all episodes are in season 6.
When Richard got to the island, his wife was dead and he was sad. Jacob offered him a job as his spokesman and asked what Richard wanted in return. Richard wanted his wife back, but Jacob said he couldn't do that. So Richard asked to never die, so that he never have to go to hell for what he did trying to save his wife. And that's why Jacob made Richard immortal.
Richard is hopeful that if he can't kill himself, maybe someone else can do it for him. Later episodes suggest that after Jacob has died, Richard has started to age, and will eventually die now. But they don't know that yet, and either way the island wasn't yet done with him.
-TK
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lost
Mar 15, 2012 14:20:38 GMT -5
Post by CRAMBAM on Mar 15, 2012 14:20:38 GMT -5
Here's an interesting piece of trivia that I enjoy sharing. A guy I grew up with became good friends with Adam Horowitz, one of the Lost writers and one of the creators of Once Upon A Time.
Anyway, Horowitz actually named a character after my friend. The character was on screen for like 5 seconds. He was murdered by Sayid on a golf course, and his family gave his name when they captured him (and got him back on the island).
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lost
Mar 15, 2012 15:43:55 GMT -5
Post by TrekBeatTK on Mar 15, 2012 15:43:55 GMT -5
Oh yes, Mr. Avellino. That's cool!
I have no similar stories. My closest connection to Hollywood is that my grade school gym teacher is Donald P. Bellisario's nephew.
-TK
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lost
Mar 15, 2012 18:08:50 GMT -5
Post by CRAMBAM on Mar 15, 2012 18:08:50 GMT -5
I actually have a few. One girl from my year went on to be an actress in some soaps.
Another guy is actually a fairly successful writer, with credits on The Simpsons, Fringe, Justice League, Boston Legal, and I think he's a co-creator of the new Green Arrow series coming.
That guy actually used MY name in a comic book once which I thought was funny.
As for Mr. Avellino, I laugh at the Lost wikipedia that comes up with theories on how the name came about. Someone wrote something about some saint. Nothing to do with anything. Just a shout out to my friend.
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lost
Mar 19, 2012 8:32:02 GMT -5
Post by TrekBeatTK on Mar 19, 2012 8:32:02 GMT -5
EPISODES COVERED: "The Package"
TIMELINE: AJIRA DAY 7 Widmore's men watch Locke's camp in secret Locke tells Jin that the only way to leave the island is if all the candidates go together Jin is going to leave to find Sun Widmore's men attack with darts Zoey takes Jin
AJIRA DAY 8 Richard and Hurley talk to Isabella Sun goes back to her garden Sun tells Jack she doesn't care about destiny Locke shows up and tells Sun he found Jin, and asks her to follow him Sun runs away chased by Locke Sun runs into a tree, knocking her unconscious Ben finds Sun. She has lost her ability to speak English Locke returns to his camp to find his people drugged and unconscious and Jin gone Jin is put in Room 23 Zoey says they've taken Jin because his name is on Dharma maps of electromagnetic pockets Claire asks why Locke needs her if her name isn't on the cave wall Locke tells Claire he needs her and Kate to get on the plane, but suggests to her that she can kill Kate after that Locke takes Sayid to Hydra Island to get Jin back Richard and Hurley return to the beach camp Locke arrives on Hydra Island and confronts Widmore Richard wants to blow up the plane so Locke can't leave, but Sun refuses to go, not wanting to lose her only hope of leaving the island Widmore tells Zoey to bring "the package" from the submarine to the infirmary Widmore gives Jin Sun's camera, with pictures of Ji Yeon Widmore tells Jin that he came to stop Locke from leaving Jack finds Sun can still write Jack promises Sun that if she goes with them they will find Jin and leave on the plane Locke returns to the island without Jin, but left Sayid behind "The package" is Desmond Sayid watches as Desmond is taken from the sub
REFLECTIONS: Once again, I was half done with these when I lost them and have to start over. Argh!
This episode seems to be another example of one that occurs concurrently with the previous episode. The first part is simultaneous with "Ab Aeterno".
There's a moment at the campfire where Sawyer brings Kate a cup of something and says to pretend it's cocoa. This echoes the scene with Claire and Charlie eating imaginary peanut butter in season one.
Locke claims that he needs all Jacob's candidates with him in order to leave the island. I have a hard time believing this because there's nothing special about them as individuals; I doubt he somehow needs them with their powers combined (is he going to summon Captain Planet?). Even though he's saying all this, and making Claire wait before she can kill Kate, I don't buy that they are necessary. I think instead he wants them all so that he knows none of them will be the next Jacob. His victory is hollow until he makes sure that nobody stays behind. He wants to beat Jacob at his own game and claim all the marbles.
Sayid says that he doesn't feel anything anymore, not pain or joy or anger. This is odd because Claire seems to have an all-consuming rage and vengeance. If Sayid's state is a result of being "claimed", why is Claire different? Perhaps she feels that because Locke planted the hate in her. Maybe Sayid would feel something if Locke planted it in him? It continues to feel like the writers are inconsistent about Sayid "claimed" in relation to Claire "claimed" (and further in relation to the French team's "sickness").
Widmore's people attack suddenly by shooting everyone with darts that drug them. This is exactly what the Others did in season two ("Live Together, Die Alone"). I kind of like that a bunch of the Others get a taste of their own medicine here! Widmore was an Other, so he would know about this particular tactic. Then again, he was angry with Zoey for moving early, so he didn't know they were doing this right now. He probably trained them for when the time would come.
It was nice to see Sun's garden again, which we really haven't seen since season 3 I think. And once again, she's frustrated and tearing stuff up. At least this time she's only pulling out weeds and dead plants.
There's a great moment between Ben and Ilana in this episode. He asks, "Why won't you believe me?" and she responds, "Because you're speaking." Classic.
After Sun is knocked on the head, she loses her ability to speak in English and reverts to Korean. Jack diagnoses this as aphasia. Even though true aphasia can be caused by a blow to the head, this seems another silly TV cliché. And when this sort of thing happens, a character always questions the believability of the explanation. In the first season, when Claire came back with selective amnesia, it was Sayid and a few others who basically said, "Really, Jack? Amnesia? Come on!" And in this episode, it is Miles who questions Jack, asking "We're supposed to believe this?" It's another example of the writers' belief that as long as a character points out how ridiculous it is, it will diffuse the audience's disbelief and make them go along with it. If they acknowledge it up front, they can get away with it. I will say, I know of know true aphasia that would result in something like this. Language is a complex thing and language disruption is a complex thing. For her to be unable to form words in one language, yet understand fluently, but only speak in another language fluently seems outside the realm of aphasia. But I'm no neurologist (neither is Jack!).
Having said that though, I really like that the show returned to Korean Sun for awhile. It brought her back to the first season, when she was an outsider who understood everyone but couldn't speak to them. I love that scene where she tells off Richard in Korean and he has no idea what she said.
Widmore's people have completed their sonic fence across the beach on Hydra Island. Did they somehow know that Smokey was coming, or did they do it for protection just in case? It seems to work, because when Locke arrives on the island, he stays behind the fence. I continue to question why the sonic fence keeps the monster out, but perhaps since the monster is really a man, it harms him they way it does a man. (though why he can't just fly over it I don't know. Guess he's not that smart.)
Back at the garden, Sun had told Jack that everything was dead. He asked specifically about tomatoes, and she told him they were all dead. So later on the beach, he comes to her with a tomato he found, saying that not everything is a lost cause. "I guess no one told it it was supposed to die." The tomato is a kind of metaphor for Sun, it seems. ...Which is a bummer because she DOES die. But this is the kind of metaphor they used to do more often in the early seasons.
ANSWERED QUESTIONS: The Dharma Initiative used Room 23 for experiments in subliminal messaging
Zoey is a geophysicist
UNANSWERED QUESTIONS: Throughout this episode, Widmore refers to Desmond secretly as "the package". But I got to thinking about that, and I realized there is no reason for him to be doing so. Everyone on the sub knows who he is talking about. Why would he use a code word for Desmond when he could just say Desmond? And it isn't because Jin was there either, because he didn't know Jin was there when he was speaking to Zoey. It's one of those instances where they wanted the audience to be surprised by the reveal, but the logic behind the code word makes no sense to me.
Reflections from the vault... I liked that they began the episode in night vision. That way, the ambush by Widmore's men wasn't a sudden intrusion, it was a mystery. The show has done a lot of sudden attacks over the years, especially the flaming arrow thing last season. With more baddies shooting darts, it was good to make it a question first, and not play the same beats we've already seen.
I was glad Sun finally had something do to in this episode, even if it was just to be frustrated. For almost a whole season she's been dragged around by people being told "Don't worry Sun, we'll find Jin"
Sawyer asks a valid question regarding the smoke monster: why can't he just fly to the other island as smoke? I get that it makes no sense if he could just do that, since then there's nothing keeping him on the island. Funny that he can still get there by boat. I still wonder if the two islands were one at some point. The scene also gets to the best line of the night, when Sawyer says "No, guess that'd be ridiculous!" It also begs the question though: why can't he just leave the island on a boat? Can he only go so far?
It was nice for Ji Yeon to come back into the picture. Widmore showing Jin the pictures of the daughter he's never seen was a nice moment. In retrospect now, this scene is all the worse knowing that Jin and Sun never return. This scene seems manufactured to make sure Jin gets a look at his daughter before he dies. I hate when children are casualties of plot.
Once it was hinted that "the package" was a person, [...] it was pretty clear that it would be Desmond. So that big reveal at the end was no surprise at all. The whole situation also bears a striking similarity to "The Man From Tallahassee", what with the person kept locked in a closet and all.
Next Assignment: "Happily Ever After" -- I have no idea yet what to do about this. In this episode, Desmond seems to cross into the "sideways" universe, and I don't know whether to treat those as real time events or not.
-TK
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Mar 19, 2012 10:19:18 GMT -5
Post by CRAMBAM on Mar 19, 2012 10:19:18 GMT -5
I barely remember how Desmond was crossing to the flash sideways universe--as in, what was happening.
Did he remember the flash sideways stuff on the island, or did he remember the island in the flash sideways. The latter is explainable given the finale.
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Mar 19, 2012 19:39:18 GMT -5
Post by TrekBeatTK on Mar 19, 2012 19:39:18 GMT -5
"I barely remember how Desmond was crossing to the flash sideways universe--as in, what was happening.
Did he remember the flash sideways stuff on the island, or did he remember the island in the flash sideways. The latter is explainable given the finale."
That's the trouble, it's hard to say. Des was zapped with an EM field, then the rest of the episode played out in the sideways land until he woke up again. When he did, he seemed different. We don't really know if he actually was there or not. And I hate that. Anyway, I'll get to that in the next post.
-TK
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Mar 20, 2012 6:22:26 GMT -5
Post by CRAMBAM on Mar 20, 2012 6:22:26 GMT -5
Fair enough. It makes sense if Desmond remembers the island in the flash sideways. It doesn't in reverse.
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lost
Mar 20, 2012 15:21:27 GMT -5
Post by gavin1701 on Mar 20, 2012 15:21:27 GMT -5
The Lost writers were clearly making things up as they went along and there's nothing wrong with that -- I think it frees up creativity. Ben for example, was only supposed to be a guest star for a few episodes but when they saw how good an actor and character he was they decided to make him a major part of the show and mythology. The danger as we see with Desmond is they introduced a lot of things that went unexplained, and they also messed about giving screen time to characters they never gave pay offs too (Mr Echo anyone?).
However I'd say it was a very satisfying finale and end season. It gave every one of the main characters left (and even some familiar faces from seasons past) closure and some great character moments. I think for all they did wrong, they did more things right and they produced one of the most gripping dramas we've seen in years. I do wonder if it's one of those shows you can go back to and watch from the first episode all the way through and enjoy it just as much.
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lost
Mar 22, 2012 15:31:07 GMT -5
Post by TrekBeatTK on Mar 22, 2012 15:31:07 GMT -5
EPISODES COVERED: "Happily Ever After"
TIMELINE: AJIRA DAY 8 Desmond wakes up in the infirmary Widmore explains that he brought Desmond back to the island Desmond attacks Widmore Zoey takes Jin to the generator room One of Widmore's scientists is accidentally fried by the generator Desmond is strapped to a chair between two large coils Widmore says he hopes when this is finished that Desmond will agree to help him Widmore is testing whether Desmond can survive another electromagnetic event The machine is turned on and Desmond is zapped by an electromagnetic field. He is unconscious for several seconds. It is unclear, but Desmond may have had a near-death experience in the "sideways" purgatory while unconscious after this event Desmond survives, now fully willing to help Widmore
AJIRA DAY 9 Desmond is walking with Zoey through the jungle when Sayid attacks and takes Desmond with him
REFLECTIONS: This is another episode that begins without the "previously on LOST."
We are told that Desmond has been unconscious for three days. This means that he was recovering in the hospital for only about four or five days before Widmore snatched him. It also means that it only took about a day to reach the island by submarine.
Ultimately, because of the question of what happened, this episode also throws a wrench in the "let's watch chronologically" with the flash-sideways at the end. It's an annoyance to me.
I'm a little confused about what this "generator room" is. There's a large box with coils in it that create an electromagnetic field. This box is controlled by a control room at the Hydra station. What is this generator for? What does it generate? I thought that they got their power from the island's natural power, like geothermal energy. One of the guys says that "this generator hasn't run in twenty years." That means this generator is NOT used for supplying electricity to the station, since we know Ben and the Others had power at the Hydra just a few years ago. So what was this generator for? It seems like the writers put it there solely for this little test, but I can't come up with a reason why Dharma would have built it if it's unrelated to the rest of their experiments.
UNANSWERED QUESTIONS: Well, I guess the above curiosity of the generator room and it's purpose is an unanswered question.
Just what the heck actually happened in this episode? In real time, Desmond is zapped, knocked unconscious, and he wakes up serene and willing to do anything Widmore says. But the whole middle of the episode was a flash-sideways about Desmond and Charlie. The primary question is whether or not Desmond "traveled" there and experienced it all before regaining consciousness or not. He certainly seems to have some knowledge or sense that he didn't have when he went into the generator. He even tells Zoey, "A lot can happen in twenty minutes," implying that something else happened to him. Remember, this aired before the nature of the "flash-sideways" was revealed. At the time, we thought perhaps it was just an alternate universe created by the hydrogen bomb. So it looked like maybe Desmond had crossed universes. The event was similar to the previous times Desmond encountered electromagnetism. In "Flashes Before Your Eyes" and "The Constant" he went back in time, into his former self. It seemed like maybe they were doing that again. However, those times Desmond was disoriented. In the flash-sideways, Desmond is just the sideways-Desmond who has no prior memories. They only surface after his encounters with Charlie. This makes the events different from the first few times.
And yet, there's this bizarre moment at the end of the episode where we cut back to the flash-sideways. Before Desmond woke on the island, Sideways-Desmond (S-Desmond) was talking to Penny, and shook her hand. Then Des woke up on the island. But after this, we cut back to the sideways, and S-Desmond has fainted immediately after shaking Penny's hand. He's just now waking up. This scene suggests that there is a connection between Desmond and S-Desmond in that moment, because the same sort of momentary disorientation would occur when Desmond time jumped in "The Constant." If Desmond was not hrere at all, why this scene?
But then, if the sideways universe is death, then how does any of it make sense? Did Desmond have a near-death experience? That seems impossible too, given that there's a certain sense of time despite the timelessness of the sideways universe. The rules there were never explained and have never made sense to me. But it seems to be set after everyone has died, so would Des really have plopped into the middle of it right now?
When the episode first aired, and we were still led to believe it was an altenate universe, I thought perhaps both Desmonds had a glimpse of each others universes, and that they would be used to bring their universes together somehow. That didn't happen. But S-Desmond seems altered since this episode as well. Is this simply due to his experiences with Charlie in the episode, or is there more to it? The title "Happily Ever After" makes us wonder whether Desmond in those 3 seconds got a glimpse at what the end would be. But we don't know. We have no real idea what actually happened, and I HATE that. Ultimately, it makes me wonder what the point of the episode even was. If he DIDN'T cross over, then the episode exists for no real reason than to zap him to make sure he can still survive it. The island story serves almost no purpose. It becomes more about set up in the sideways realm for the finale.
Why has Desmond's outlook changed? If he did cross over, what made him trust Widmore? If he didn't, then what made him trust Widmore?
Reflections from the vault... When we saw that chamber with the generators all made of wood and the wooden chair inside, for a moment I wondered if this place had anything to do with the cabin. Like maybe the invisible Jacob was trapped HERE, and the generator made him appear for that brief second in the other location. Perhaps also that would have some connection to why you could not bring modern objects into the cabin. But the two probably are not related.
The title seems to suggest that the sideways world is supposed to be "Happily Ever After" but isn't. It reminded me of the song that originally closed the musical "Company" which included lines about how married life was "happily ever after, ever ever ever after... in hell." That sort of sums up the sideways universe. It's a happily ever after in hell (metaphorically speaking!). Boy, I was more correct than I knew at the time, since it did end up being the afterlife.
The one problem with this episode is that for all it said and did, it was very much set-up for another episode. We didn't really learn any more about Widmore's plan, we don't know what Desmond's going to do next, or how they connect. It was one long move to get Desmond from here to there. I hope it was worth it, or that will sour this episode for me. The episode has definitely soured for me.
Next Assignment: "Everybody Loves Hugo"
-TK
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Mar 23, 2012 16:46:19 GMT -5
Post by TrekBeatTK on Mar 23, 2012 16:46:19 GMT -5
EPISODES COVERED: "Everybody Loves Hugo"
TIMELINE: AJIRA DAY 9 Hurley visits Libby's grave Ilana goes to the Black Rock for dynamite Hurley hears Whispers and Michael appears Michael tells Hurley he can't let everyone get killed Ilana returns with dynamite to blow up the plane Hurley warns them not to blow up the plane Ilana blows up Locke tells Kate and Sawyer that they are waiting for Hurley, Jack and Sun to arrive Sayid returns to Locke's camp and has Desmond tied to a tree Richard plans to return to the Black Rock for more dynamite, and this time Hurley agrees with him Locke questions Desmond Richard's party arrives at the Black Rock to find that Hurley has gone on before them Hurley blows up the Black Rock because Michael told him to Locke and Desmond see young Jacob in the jungle Hurley says they need to talk to Locke. He claims Jacob told him so, but he's bluffing. Richard calls his bluff. Richard takes Ben and Miles to destroy the plane; Jack, Lapidus and Sun go with Hurley to talk to Locke In the jungle, they hear the Whispers Hurley learns from Michael that the Whispers are ghosts who can't move on because of what they did Michael apologizes for killing Libby Locke takes Desmond to a well and throws him in Locke returns to his camp Hurley arrives and parleys with Locke
REFLECTIONS: The episode opens with Hurley at Libby's grave. As the scene ends, he and Jack walk off, and you can see the frame of Eko's church nearby. I don't remember the church being so close to the graveyard. In fact, I seem to remember them being on opposite sides of the beach camp. Maybe my memory is a little rusty, but I really don't think they were that close to each other.
In this episode, Ilana blows up due to unstable dynamite. This bothers me because Ilana never ultimately served any purpose. She was sent by Jacob to help the candidates. She has been on this island for about a season and a half, and has always been somewhat mysterious. But she dies before we can ever learn what her relationship with Jacob truly was or what she was there to do. She just walks around with a gun trying to figure out what to do next for almost the entire season, and then is killed off. Frankly, they didn't even NEED her to tell them they were candidates since they could have learned that at the Temple or from Locke. So ultimately she was a character that went nowhere and wasted our time. I kept waiting and waiting for them to do something with her, and instead they just unceremoniously blew her up. To make it worse, Ben casts it off by saying, "the island was done with her." No, the writers were done with her!
It seems Desmond does not know this isn't really Locke, and has no reason to believe it's not Locke. After all, when would Desmond have learned that Locke had died? He was with Penny the whole time. I've pointed out numerous occasions where characters had information they shouldn't have. It was nice here that Desmond didn't have information he wouldn't have. As far as he knows, John Locke is still around.
There's a point where Hurley tells Miles that dead people are more reliable than living people. So far for him that has been pretty true. But I doubt that it can be axiomatic on this show. Other times the dead have been downright deceptive. Then again, that wasn't really them, but illusions by the Black Smoke. But since the characters didn't know that, people like Christian and Yemi were not any more reliable. If Hurley were confronted with an illusory dead person besides Locke, would he know the difference?
Locke takes Desmond to one of the wells that the Man in Black had dug. He says it is very old; indeed, we saw them dug several thousand years ago! I like this scene because Locke basically tells Desmond chunks of his backstory, but we the audience haven't yet seen it. He even says that the wells were dug by hand and that's how old they are. But he also says that the wells were dug in places that made compass needles spin. This troubles me. In "Across the Sea" we saw that it made knifes spin and stick to stone, and were told metal behaved strangely around these spots, but we never saw compasses. Did they even have magnetic compasses that far back? Either way, I doubt there is a time that was so long ago that people had magnetic compasses but didn't have hand tools for digging. I mean, agriculture goes back to the beginnings of civilization, so surely by the days of the Roman Empire they had some small digging implements, yes?
I like that this episode allows Hurley to take full control as leader. It's ultimately the next to last step on his road to leadership before he is finally put in charge. I like that even when he doesn't know what he's doing, he has started to command a certain level of respect. Even down to that moment when he faces down Richard and says, "I don't have to prove anything to you, Dude."
ANSWERED QUESTIONS: What are the Whispers?
UNANSWERED QUESTIONS: Hurley mentions that lots of dead people come to him, but Libby never has. Why has Libby never come to him? The closest was when Ana Lucia told him, "Libby says hi." What makes certain dead people appear to him and not others? In Michael's case it's because he's trapped on the island, but what about everyone who came to him off the island?
This is the second episode in which a young Jacob has appeared to taunt Locke. What makes him able to appear like this to people? Why can everyone see him in this state? Can he only do this until his ashes are burned up later?
If the Whispers are just the voices of restless ghosts, what does that have to do with the Others? Remember that the Whispers preceded the Others on numerous occasions throughout the series, especially season 2. But even as late as early this season in the tunnels under the Temple wall we heard the Whispers before the Others. In the early days, we were led to believe it was them. I hate that this was changed last minute just to answer a question. Restless ghosts is lame. But knowing they are ghosts, what connects them to the Others? Why do we hear them when the Others are about? Why are the Others sometimes able to appear out of nowhere in their presence? Are they warning people that the Others are near?
Why can everyone hear the Whispers, but only Hurley can see the ghosts?
Who else is dead and whispering besides Michael?
Reflections from the vault... It was good to see Michael again. I guess the dead are forever directing Hurley now. I liked that he was remorseful about LIbby. It would be nice if he could see Walt again (they had BETTER pay off the Walt thing).
was confused by Jack's actions early on. Two weeks ago he told Sun that he was not going to blow up the plane, and he was going to get her and Jin off the island with it. So color me confuddled when he's cheerily marching to the Black Rock to get dynamite to blow up the plane!
On the one hand, it's a bummer that it seems the whole Ilana thing was kind of a waste now. But on the other hand, I was glad to see it. Not because I wanted her dead, but because of the dynamite. When we first got the dynamite, someone exploded almost immediately. But since then, people have been carrying it all over the jungle and not being careful with it at all. It has bothered me that there's been no sense of danger around it anymore, so when someone finally blew up, I have to say it's about time.
It was good to see the Whispers recur. Unfortunately, if what we are told here is true, it's resulting in the most terrible retcon since Battlestar Galactica and the Kobol opera house. The Whispers are GHOSTS? Seriously? [...]what about Harper in "The Other Woman", who also appeared out of the Whispers. We were led to believe all this time that the Whispers were the Others. Could TPTB just not come up with any way to expain it? Was Harper a ghost? Can only Hurley see the ghosts? Because Juliet could see Harper, but Harper was supposedly at the Temple, and we didn't see her there. To make matters worse, if Michael is to be believed, the ghosts are trapped on the island for things they did. So at least for them, the island really IS hell or purgatory or whatever.[...] It makes no seeeeeeense!!!
Next Assignment: "The Last Recruit"
-TK
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Mar 27, 2012 22:12:15 GMT -5
Post by TrekBeatTK on Mar 27, 2012 22:12:15 GMT -5
EPISODES COVERED: "The Last Recruit", "The Candidate"
TIMELINE: AJIRA DAY 10 Sawyer tells Hurley and his friends about Widmore's sub Zoey and a party of Widmore's people arrive looking for Desmond At Zoey's walkie-talkie signal, widmore's bomb the jungle nearby as a warning. She gives them until nightfall to return Desmond, or they will bomb everyone. Locke tells everyone to pack up for travel to Hydra Island Locke sends Sawyer and Kate for Desmond's boat to take them over Sawyer tells Jack that he's not going to rendezvous with Locke. Instead, he wants Jack to take Sun, Lapidus and Hurley and meet him at a second location Locke sends Sayid to kill Desmond at the well Des and Sayid discuss what Locke promised Sayid Kate and Sawyer reach the boat Locke goes looking for stragglers When Locke is gone, Jack takes his friends to follow Sawyer's plan. Claire follows them secretly. Locke finds Sayid, who says he killed Desmond Jack's group meet Sawyer Claire arrives and holds them at gunpoint Kate refuses to go if Claire won't go with them Claire agrees, and they set sail Jack tells Sawyer that leaving the island doesn't feel right Sawyer kicks Jack off the boat Jack apologizes for Juliet's death, then jumps ship Jack swims to shore and meets Locke's party Sawyer and company arrive on Hydra Island Jin and Sun reunite, and her English returns Zoey takes them all prisoner Widmore starts bombing Locke's party Locke saves Jack from blowing up Jack wakes to find Sayid and Locke have brought him to Hydra Island by outrigger Sawyer and friends are put in the cages again Sayid tells Jack that the surviving Others scattered into the jungle Locke asks Jack to help him Sawyer tells Kate that her name was crossed off in the cave Sun gives Jin his ring back The power to the sonic fences is cut The Smoke Monster arrives and attacks Widmore's men Jack arrives and frees his friends
REFLECTIONS: When Jack converses with Locke, they bring up the subject of Christian Shephard. Jack says, "the third day we were here" he saw his father, and his father led him to water. That's not exactly true. Jack first saw his father on the FIFTH day they were there, and his father led him to water the following day. It was definitely not the same day, which Jack implies, nor was it the third day.
Locke continues to say that he needs all of the candidates to go with him on the plane. This time he tells Jack that it won't work unless they all go. I still do not know if he is bluffing or not. But isn't it interesting that this "you all have to go" theme of getting on the plane is brought up again. Ben made the same type of statement about getting on the Ajira flight.
It's curious that Claire seems much more stable in this episode now, and far less reactive and crazy. It seems perhaps Locke is losing his hold over her. Although, doesn't that mean that those who are "claimed" are not lost causes after all?
It was so nice to see Desmond's boat again. I thought they came up with a sensible way of reintroducing it and making it useful. Also, there's a kind of callback to season 2. Remember that in season 2, Jack's plan was to go with Michael while Sayid secretly went by boat to undermine the Others' plan. In this episode, Sawyer and Jack have a similar plan to undermine Locke's plan with the boat. I could ask the question of how the boat is in such good condition three years later, but maybe the Others were using it all this time. It's always silly to me that there never seem to be any storms or anything on the island unless story calls for it.
I have in my notes the quote, "Whoever he is, he's not one of us." I forget who said this or who about, but I think it was about Sayid. I made a note of it, because it's another recurrence of the theme of "otherness" on this show, which there used to be a lot more of. There was always a distinction of who is "one of us" or "one of them." Sayid has now been recategorized, like Desmond and Juliet were.
When Jack is on the boat, he starts saying that he doesn't feel right, and that he's supposed to go back. He says that his destiny is on the island, and they shouldn't be leaving. This scene felt very reminiscent of that scene in Return of the Jedi when Luke feels that he shouldn't have gone on the mission to Endor. I also like the symmetry of how this time it's Jack jumping into the ocean the way Sawyer did off the helicopter.
I also realized that the show has a theme of people saying, "We have to go back!" This time it's Kate saying they need to turn around and get Jack. It's a nice reversal of him doing his famous, "We have to go back!" on the runway. But Sun also had a similar moment in the helicopter, wanting to go back for Jin.
When Sawyer's party arrive at Hydra island, Zoey gets on the walkie and tells them to cut the power to the sonic fence. Then Jin shows up, and runs toward Sun. It cuts back and forth between them as they get closer and closer to the fence that separates them. Then they meet and kiss. Good thing Zoey got the fence down in time! I kept thinking how funny it would have been if they both slammed into the sonic barrier and dropped. Would have ruined the moment, but I'd have been amused.
And suddenly Sun can speak English again! So what, love has the power to cure aphasia? I guess this is another hint of where they are ultimately going in the finale, with love being the answer to everything.
This episode ends with Widmore's people bombing Locke's group. The next episode picks up with Jack on Hydra Island, and Sayid tells us that those who survived scattered into the jungle. The writers are aware there were children in that group, right? I hope Cindy and the kids are okay!
There's this weird moment when Widmore asks if the fence is live yet. We see sonic fence set up around the cages. But is this separate from the barrier at the beach? We know those were already live and effective. So are these pylons an extension of the same fence, or is it a secondary perimeter? Why would they need this if the first fence works? And if the first fence fails, isn't it likely this one would fail too? And it does fail because someone cuts the power. Either it's Locke (because he's not an idiot), or he had Jack do it for him.
ANSWERED QUESTIONS: The Smoke Monster can only look like dead people Christian Shephard was the Smoke Monster all along
UNANSWERED QUESTIONS: I've already dealt with the inconsistencies of the Christian Shephard issue in a number of previous reflections, so I won't reiterate them here. But why does Claire now know about it? When did she learn that he was pretending to be her father? A few episodes ago she seemed to think of them as two separate entities. Did he tell her shortly before he told Jack?
Why can he only look like dead people? Does he have to have access to the body? What does that say about him being the medusa spiders in "Exposé"? And what does that mean about Dave??
Who is the "last recruit" of the title? Is it Jack? Are we to believe that Locke thinks he's recruited Jack?
Reflections from the vault... Claire says that Jack already sided with John by letting him talk. The end of the episode leads us to believe that isn't the case, but I'd like to know is there anyone left on the island who HASN'T let Locke talk to them? Jack, Claire, Kate, Sawyer, Hurley, Sayid, Desmond, Sun, Jin, Lapidus, Ben, Richard, they all did.
Desmond didn't seem all that hurt for a guy who just fell 10 feet down a well. And didn't it seem like a longer fall the last time?
Kate gives this big speech to Claire about how she never should have raised Aaron. I have a sickening feeling this is supposed to be the "resolution" to the "raised by another" stuff from the first season. What, because Aaron was raised by another Claire went feral and nearly helped evil escape the island? Is that what we're supposed to think? Because so much of the first couple seasons (especially two) intimated that AARON was in danger. But he's never really been in danger, has he? And why would baptism make a difference? Aaron's living comfortably with his granny. So if this is the answer to that whole story, then that is one thread that was BADLY tied off.
And just like Sawyer, Jack is able to swim all the way back to shore. My my, the Losties really are good swimmers aren't they? ...Except for Joanna who was a scuba diver (!) and Boone the lifeguard!
I did like that little moment where Sawyer called Widmore's bluff about killing them, and Widmore countered by saying that he can kill Kate because she's not on the list. That's true, she's not anymore.
Speaking of lists, where did Widmore get this list? And are we to believe that the infamous "Jacob's list" from way back in season three has been just one list this whole time? Is this supposed to have been that list? Or is Jacob always making silly lists? And in the end, were any of the lists the Others knew about really Jacob's anyway? I only ask because at one point neither Kate nor Sawyer was on "Jacob's list".
Next Assignment: the rest of "The Candidate" and "What They Died For"
-TK
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Mar 28, 2012 6:28:37 GMT -5
Post by CRAMBAM on Mar 28, 2012 6:28:37 GMT -5
I guess you can deal with some of those continuity issues as a result of faulty memory, since Jack doesn't realize millions of people are watching his adventures on TV and can pop in the DVD At least they aren't killing characters that didn't die. How close are you to the finale at this point?
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Mar 28, 2012 7:36:08 GMT -5
Post by TrekBeatTK on Mar 28, 2012 7:36:08 GMT -5
I am about an episode and a half away from the finale. Then it will be going back and doing the flash-sideways.
-TK
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Apr 4, 2012 9:49:16 GMT -5
Post by TrekBeatTK on Apr 4, 2012 9:49:16 GMT -5
EPISODES COVERED: "The Candidate", "What They Died For"
TIMELINE: AJIRA DAY 11 Jack tells Kate that he's not getting on the plane Sayid meets Jack's party in the jungle Locke arrives at the plane and kills Widmore's guards Locke takes a watch off one of the dead guards Locke finds the plane rigged with explosives Jack's party arrives at the plane Locke suggests they take the submarine Sawyer tells Jack not to let Locke on the sub They arrive at the sub Sawyer and Lapidus sneak onto the sub Locke asks who told Jack he needed to stay, and Jack replies, "John Locke told me to stay," then pushes Locke off the dock Shots are fired from the jungle and Kate is hit Locke resurfaces and opens fire on Widmore's men Jack takes Kate into the sub with Sayid Sawyer orders the sub to submerge, leaving Locke and Claire behind Jack opens his bag to find Locke has rigged the C4 with the watch to detonate in four minutes Jack believes Locke can't kill them, so the bomb won't work Sawyer doesn't trust Jack and tries to disarm the bomb Sawyer fails Sayid tells Jack where Desmond is Sayid runs away with the bomb because, "It's going to be you, Jack" The bomb detonates, killing Sayid, and the sub starts to sink Sun is pinned by debris Jack sends Hurley with Kate to swim for shore The others try to save Sun, and Sawyer is knocked out by falling debris as the sub floods Jack takes Sawyer off the sub, leaving Jin to free Sun Sun tells Jin to leave, but he refuses to leave her again Jin can't free Sun The sub floods and Jin and Sun drown Jack, Kate, Hurley and Sawyer reunite on the beach and grieve for the Koreans Locke knows the sub sank, and knows they aren't all dead Locke goes to "finish what I started"
AJIRA DAY 12 Jack stitches up Kate's bullet hole Jack's party heads for the well Richard, Miles and Ben arrive at the Barracks Richard points out Alex's grave They get C4 from Ben's secret closet Zoey and Widmore arrive at Ben's house Widmore sends Zoey to get their supplies and sink their outrigger Zoey spots Locke and calls Widmore Hurley sees young Jacob again Young Jacob takes Jacob's ashes from Hurley and runs off Hurley chases him and finds Jacob, with his ashes in a fire Jacob says when the ashes burn out, Hurley will never see him again. Then he sends Hurley to gather his friends. Zoey returns to Ben's house Miles takes a walkie-talkie and runs off Widmore and Zoey hide in Ben's closet while Ben and Richard go outside to wait for Locke The Smoke Monster attacks Richard Locke tells Ben he has people to kill Ben takes Locke to Widmore and Zoey Locke kills Zoey Widmore says that he'll kill Penny when he leaves the island unless Widmore tells him why he came back Widmore says he brought Desmond as "a measure of last resort" but won't say more with Ben listening. Locke suggests he whisper it, but as he does Ben shoots him Jacob explains to Jack, Hurley, Kate and Sawyer why he brought them to the island, and that one of them will have to protect the island. He tells them he will let them choose who it will be. Jack chooses to be the island's protector Jacob takes Jack to a stream. He tells Jack where to find the cave of light. He gives Jack some water to drink, then says, "Now you're like me" Locke and Ben come to the well and find Desmond gone, freed by Sayid Locke says that when they find Desmond, it will enable him to destroy the island
REFLECTIONS: When Locke comes to the plane, he finds that it is already rigged with explosives. We could have assumed this was the work of Richard, Ben and Miles who set off on just such a mission several days ago. But no, it turns out that it was done by Widmore! So this means not only did he show up and set up fences, he also rigged the plane. This means he brought the C4 with him. But did he know that the plane was even going to be here? This seems a tad too thought out to me. I also wonder when exactly this was done. I'd assume fairly recently, since there's a little bamboo ladder up to the cockpit that wasn't there before.
Knowing that Widmore rigged the plane with explosives means that we also know that Richard did not. So what have they been doing for three days? When we finally catch up with them in "What They Died For", they are only just arriving back at the Barracks to get explosives from Ben's house. This took three days? Ben even says it was a shortcut! Why are there no consistent distances on this series? Why do they sometimes go from A to B in no time, but this time it took them three days?
I like it when they are all getting on the sub and Locke tries to stop Jack from staying. He says, "I don't know who told you you had to stay, but it's not true" and Jack says, "John Locke told me" then pushes him off the dock. That's great! Smokey didn't consider that anyone would have actually listened to Locke, did he?
There's a shoot out while they are getting on the sub, and Kate gets shot. This is yet another one of those annoying fake-outs they do on this show to keep us from knowing who dies. We already know that Kate's name is crossed off the wall. So she's not in the running to be a candidate and is therefore expendable. So when she gets shot, it seems she's not long for this world. But of course, that's a lie that we've seen several times before (Sayid was similarly shot and survived in last year's finale). It's a misdirect to keep us from realizing that Sayid is going to die in this episode, as well as the Kwons. And I really resent that. I resent that the Kwons are killed off and never get to see their daughter again, while Kate gets to go on living. Kate's story is just as over as theirs is, but it seems to me that they wanted a little bit more with the love triangle. There's even further insult to the Kwons' memory when Jacob says that Kate can be candidate if she wants to, and that "it's just a line of chalk on a wall". So we've been teased that Kate is expendable for a couple of episodes only to have her both survive and be let back into the running. I'm fine with Sayid's death because he goes out a hero and he was sort of a zombie anyway. But for Kate to still be fine and the Kwons be dead is just wrong to me.
Locke has taken some C4 from the plane and rigged a bomb that he put in Jack's pack. Why does there have to be a bomb at the end of every season? Season 1 had a bomb on the raft (well, it was like a molotov cocktail or something, but it still made the raft blow up), season 2 had an imploded hatch, season 4 had the bomb on the freighter, season 5 had the hydrogen bomb. And Locke does it so they will die on the submarine. That's a very John Locke move, considering the real Locke blew up the last submarine to keep Jack ON the island back in season 3.
Jack believes once again that Locke is unable to kill them and that the bomb will not hurt them if they do nothing. He's testing his faith again, like in the Black Rock. But this time, he at least has the memory of what happened that time to back him up. But Sawyer isn't going to believe any of that and tries to diffuse the bomb. They are not ever successful at diffusing bombs on this show, so I don't know why he thinks he can. Anyway, he tries, but he only makes it worse. Since Jack reasons Locke can't kill them, and since Sawyer is responsible for messing with the bomb, I guess we have to conclude (as he will the next episode) that the deaths on the sub were Sawyer's fault! That's a bitter irony for a guy who was trying to get them all on the boat solely to save them.
And then we get to the Kwons. There's a certain symmetry here to when the freighter blew up. That time, Jin was trapped on the boat with a bomb. This time it's Sun, but this time they don't separate. Jin refuses to leave. And what I hate about all of this is that they only just reunited a day or two ago. It took two seasons for Jin and Sun to find each other, only to die. I think that's just bad storytelling. It also makes an orphan of their daughter and I hate writing that makes casualties of children for no good reason. To top it off, they go the drowning route again, just like with Charlie. At least this time there was no easy escape (well, Jin could escape) to make the scenario ridiculous. But drowning is a horrible way to die.
Ben's group finally reaches his house, only to learn that Widmore is coming. When Widmore arrives, we learn that Jacob came to see him too and showed him the error of his ways. Isn't that just a little too neat? That Jacob came to see him when we weren't watching? And when did this happen? It would seem to be before Locke died. That means that when Widmore found Locke, he was already working for Jacob. The problem I have with this is that it makes those scenes no longer about the feud between Widmore and Ben. It really hurts that dynamic. And that storyline doesn't go anywhere either. It gets quickly wrapped up here when Ben kills him. The exact nature of their war is never really laid out for us; they were just another couple of opponents for no real reason ultimately. I do like though the sudden shooting of Widmore and Ben's reason: "He doesn't get to save his daughter." Boy, it's a good thing that Ben never got back off the island or he'd probably try to kill Penny again. It is really weird though that the show wants us to sympathize with Ben and his relationship with Alex, when he was her kidnapper.
Jacob speaks to all of the remaining Losties just before he disappears and explains why they are there. This whole time he's been looking for someone to replace him and guard the island. Again, this really just makes him a cosmic Willy Wonka. But what bugs me in the end is that he says he will give them the thing he never got: a choice. He's going to let them choose who it will be! What?? After all that work, after watching and maneuvering and spending centuries bringing hundreds of people to the island, eliminating them one by one, after all that he's going to let them make the final call? Part of me hopes he's just saying that to make Jack volunteer on his own. I think he'd already chosen Jack (and Hurley), especially in light of Sayid saying, "it's going to be you, Jack." So if it's just a mind game to get Jack to agree to it, I guess that's okay. Because anyone who spends that much time choosing and then doesn't ultimately choose is an idiot.
I should also point out that it was right around the time "The Candidate" aired that I became certain I knew how the series would end. I knew that the final image would be Jack in the jungle mirroring the opening of the show, and his eye closing. I had suspected it for awhile, but I became convinced of it here, where it looked like Jack was going to stay behind.
After Jack volunteers, Hurley says, "I'm just glad it's not me." And with that line, we know that it probably will involve Hurley. The line is obvious set-up. And that's exactly what happens.
Widmore tells Locke that Desmond is a "fail-safe" to prevent Locke from leaving the island. So this all comes back to the hatch as a metaphor. It's supposed to be like when Desmond turned the fail-safe key. This time, Desmond IS the fail-safe key. Of course, the strange thing is that when Desmond finally goes down there in the finale, he is unsuccessful, which makes it all sort of a waste. But you know they used the words "fail-safe" solely to recall the end of season 2.
ANSWERED QUESTIONS: We learn that it was Sayid who turned off the fences in the previous episode We learn that the fences by the cages were just the ones from the beach; they were moved. Locke can't kill the candidates, so all that stuff about how they all had to leave together was a lie to get them in one place and kill them Jacob crossed Kate's name off because she was taking care of Aaron
UNANASWERED QUESTIONS: Why would Widmore move the fences? If it's his best defense against Locke, then moving them makes no sense. Even if he wanted to give him access to the plane to blow him up, it still seems stupid since it meant Locke came in and killed a bunch of his guys.
After the sub sinks, Locke is suddenly aware of it, as well as the fact that they didn't all die. How does he know? He has never shown this sort of perception before.
Why did it take Richard, Ben and Miles so long to get to Ben's house?
What does Locke do with the stuff he's carrying when he turns into smoke? I can assume that his clothes are part of the illusion, but what about his knives and torches and the backpack? What does he do with them when he's flying around? Does he put them down somewhere, or do they somehow get swept up in the smoke? These logistics were never addressed.
Just how is it Jacob can still be around talking just because his ashes are still there? It made a certain amount of sense when he was a ghost that only Hurley could see, but this time everyone can see him! And he has a physical presence. He manipulates objects. Why does he still have this power until every last bit of his body burns up? It's a sort of magical element we are just expected to go with. When did Jacob become Freddy Kreuger?
Reflections from the vault... Once Jack broke his friends out of the cages, they all headed to the plane. I could not understand why they weren't still trying for the sub. It made no sense to me. Wasn't the plan from the outset to take the sub? So why were they going to the plane in the first place? And then they get there only to be told there are explosives on it, and they should all head for the submarine.
Sayid told Jack "It's going to be you". This clearly supports my assumptions from last week are correct, and Jack is the candidate who will replace Jacob. I believe the series will end with Jack on the island, maybe even with an "eye close" shot to mirror the eye open of the pilot. This is not a spoiler, just speculation. See, I did say that back then.
When they make it back to the Barracks, Miles gets all weirded out by the buried Alex. Richard tells Ben that after Ben left the island (that's back when the island moved), he buried Alex. ...Okay, um, what? Or did he not mean when Ben left the island, but just when Ben left the Barracks and went to the Orchid? Maybe that's it. ...But no, wait, Ben had sent all the Others to the Temple before that. So when the heck did Richard bury Alex? And really, why aren't all the dead Losties and Others and Freighties still there rotting in the sun? Did Richard bury all of them? So, the Others just went about their lives for three years and Richard came back one day arbitrarily to bury the dead? After Locke disappeared before his eyes he said, "Well, till he comes back, guess I'll go dig a grave or something." maybe I should have added that to the unanswered questions.
It suddenly struck me: this whole show then begins because one guy messed up with his family thousands of years ago, and now has been whisking people away against their will looking for someone to take over. ...This is the exact plot of Star Trek: Voyager. I've been watching Voyager this whole time!
Jack is the new Jacob. For how long? For as long as he can, says Jacob. I never thought when I started watching this show 6 years ago that it would eventually have the same plot as The Santa Clause.
Next Assignment: "The End"
-TK
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Apr 5, 2012 14:27:32 GMT -5
Post by CRAMBAM on Apr 5, 2012 14:27:32 GMT -5
Sun and Jin's deaths were horrible. The worst part is they gave no thought to their daughter.
THAT was the biggest deal.
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Jun 3, 2012 18:31:11 GMT -5
Post by TrekBeatTK on Jun 3, 2012 18:31:11 GMT -5
As Bilbo Baggins once said, "I've put this off for far too long." It seems 2 months have passed since my last reflections. I now have the difficult task of deciphering my notes from that time, but I shall do my best.
EPISODES COVERED: "The End"
TIMELINE: AJIRA DAY 13 Jack washes his face Jack tells the group where Jacob said they have to go Sawyer goes to get Desmond from the well Jack, Kate and Hurley set out for the heart of the island Ben catches Sawyer by the well When Sawyer finds that Desmond is gone, he hits Ben in the face, takes his gun, and runs off Locke notices Vincent's tracks by the well Desmond wakes up at Rose and Bernard's Locke and Ben arrive. Locke threatens to kill Rose and Bernard if Desmond doesn't come with him. Desmond agrees, as long as Locke never hurts them Miles finds Richard passed out in the jungle Miles calls Ben's walkie-talkie Richard wakes up and decides they should still go to Hydra Island and blow up the plane Sawyer catches up to Jack's party Miles notices Richard has started to go gray Miles and Richard take an outrigger and find Lapidus floating among wreckage from the sub Lapidus suggests they take the plane rather than blow it up Jack's party runs into Locke's party Kate opens fire on Locke, but her shots are ineffective Jack tells Locke he is going to kill him They all continue to the heart of the island In the bamboo forest, Locke, Desmond and Jack set off alone They come to the cave of light and tie a rope to Desmond Desmond tells Jack that none of this matters, because there is a place where they will all be together again Miles radios Ben again from Hydra Island Claire starts shooting at Richard's party Richard tells Claire that they just want to get home and offers to take her with them, but she refuses Jack and Locke lower Desmond into the cave At the bottom, Desmond finds a large pool of glowing water Desmond steps inside, and is zapped by some sort of energy, while he pulls out a large stone "cork" from the center of the pool. The water drains, but from the hole comes fire and/or lava Desmond screams, the island shakes, and Jack and Locke leave the cave Jack punches Locke, who now bleeds. He is mortal again. Locke hits Jack with a rock and takes off There's a massive earthquake. Ben saves Hurley from a falling tree, but is pinned by it It starts to rain and Jack wakes up Jack goes back and calls for Desmond, but there is no answer Jack runs after Locke Kate, Sawyer and Hurley try to free Ben while Lapidus repairs the plane amid continued earthquakes Jack finds Locke at the cliffs near Jacob's cave Jack and Locke fight Locke stabs Jack in the abdomen and is about to stab him in the throat Kate arrives and shoots Locke Jack kicks Locke off the cliff Sawyer and Hurley arrive with Ben, having freed him Lapidus sends Miles to fix the hydraulics with duct tape Jack sends Kate and Sawyer to take Locke's boat to the plane Ben and Hurley stay behind with Jack Kate and Jack kiss and exchange "I love you"s Jack, Ben and Hurley head for the cave Kate and Sawyer jump of the cliff and swim to the boat Jack tells Hurley that he is going down alone and that Hurley has to protect the island. Hurley reluctantly agrees Jack and Hurley perform the drinking ceremony Lapidus starts the plane Jack is lowered into the cave Desmond is still alive, frustrated that he is still there Jack sends Desmond back out of the cave to be with Penny Kate and Sawyer make it to Hydra Island Kate convinces Claire to come with them Kate, Sawyer and Claire come to the plane Jack puts the stone back in the hole The plane takes off Water begins flowing back into the cave. It fills the pool, and the light is restored When Ben and Hurley pull up on the rope, it is Desmond, not Jack Hurley realizes he now has to take care of the island and doesn't know what to do. Ben suggests he first get Desmond home. Hurley asks Ben to help him take care of the island Jack finds himself washed up out of the cave Jack struggles on foot into the bamboo jungle and collapses Vincent finds Jack and lays down beside him Jack watches the Ajira plane fly overhead, then dies
REFLECTIONS: The opening of the episode features a lot of intercutting between events on the island and events in the sideways universe. This is an indication of there being a connection, that the fates of both worlds are interrelated. However, it also misleads the audience in a way, some of whom still thought it was a parallel universe. At the time, I was hoping that this indicated the two worlds would recombine somehow and that would save the island. But that was not the case. Instead, the episode continued to play coy with the nature of the flash-sideways, only slowly revealing its nature until the end.
Until this episode, Locke's primary goal was to get off of the island. And taking "Across the Sea" into account, it seems that the Man in Black's only goal for the entire series and for thousands of years was to get off the island. So it is strange that now Locke suddenly wants to put out the light and sink the island. Why doesn't he just leave? Why delay the thing he's wanted for so long? And was this always something he wanted? Heck, I don't understand why he couldn't have done that long before.
Rose and Bernard could have made good candidates since they don't want to leave the island. However, it's their very disinterest in the cosmic goings-on that disqualifies them. They are at a point where they don't want to do anything but just live there in peace, having washed their hands of the rest of it. This makes them unsuited for the responsibility associated with guarding the island. It would be like trusting Tom Bombadil with the One Ring.
I have in my notes "Locke is still lying, since he plans to destroy the island," but I don't know which lie this refers to. Perhaps it refers to his promise to make Ben the leader of the island. Whatever I meant, Locke continues to speak out of both sides of his mouth.
In this episode, Richard's hair begins to go gray. This is the first visible indication that Jacob's death has nullified Richard's immortality. I wonder why he just starts going gray so suddenly though? Lucky for him he doesn't rapidly age all at once! I wonder how many more years he'll get before he finally dies.
There's a moment when Locke says that Jack is the "obvious choice" for island protector. I'm sure many in the audience were thinking the same thing. This is another line telegraphing the eventual choosing of Hurley instead of Jack.
In my reflections on "Happily Ever After", I questioned what happened to Desmond when he was hit with the electromagnetism. Did he actually experience the sideways universe or not? Well, unfortunately that question was answered in this episode and it makes no sense. It turns out that Desmond DID in fact go to the sideways universe and experience everything we saw in that episode. He saw the other Jack and knows the plane doesn't crash. He tells all of this to Jack. The trouble is, I cannot understand how this makes sense. We are later told that the sideways universe is an afterlife, a kind of waiting area created by the Losties so they could find each other again and move on. This certainly implies that they all must die before this occurs. So Des has some kind of near-death experience and meets up with dead Jack before Jack is even dead? Even if we presume the sideways universe is somehow outside of time, this feels very odd. Why suddenly now does somebody experience it? Why Desmond? Why haven't any of the other near-deaths on this show taken people to the sideways universe? Des also speaks of it as if it is present, and yet somehow hints that it's where he's going when he saves the island. Does he know it's an "afterlife"? What of the other Desmond then? Why does he jump into his dead self; is it because he died? That's odd, since his sideways-self continues on even after he leaves and is revived. I seriously wish they had never done that episode. I also very much hoped at the time that Desmond's words here proved they were two universes and that somehow the two Desmonds were working to fuse them together.
I have written, "If Des is right, then six years of the show don't matter." It somehow refers to this scene, but I don't remember what I was thinking, so I'll leave it at that.
I love the moment when Jack says to Locke, "You disrespect his memory by wearing his face." It's a great line, and also evocatively worded. It positions the Man in Black as a play-actor; a masquerader. I'm also reminded of an episode of Star Trek: Voyager called "Faces". In that episode, a Vidiian kills an ensign, then cuts off and wears his face so that B'Elanna will love him. It's one of the more disturbing things Trek ever did.
Desmond is lowered into the cave with a rope. For some reason in this scene, the rope seems to disappear in certain shots. It may just be the angles, but it does feel like the rope isn't always there.
So Desmond uncorks the island and the earth trembles. Cliffs break off and fall into the ocean. The massive seismic activity scares everyone as it seems Locke has succeeded: the island is sinking. Several times someone like Sawyer says a line like, "this whole place is going to the bottom of the ocean!" We're even supposed to presume it possible since we saw the island at the bottom of the ocean in the sideways universe. Trouble is, this is nonsense! Islands are not boats! They don't just float on top of the water, and they cannot just "sink". You don't spring a leak in an island and then watch it go down. The island is connected to the ocean floor at some point and while it is theoretically possible for large portions of it to break off and for sea levels to rise it will not sink the whole thing to "the bottom of the ocean". It's unlikely the entire island would be covered at all, and certainly not because of some earthquakes. I suppose if things were really bad enough the chunks of the island above sea level could break apart and fall in, but short of some tidal wave picking all that land up and displacing it far away, it would not end up underwater. Under that land would just be more land. And if the island is indeed volcanic, isn't it more likely that it might erupt and ultimately harden over as a new or differently shaped island? I find the whole "sink the island" thing to be even more laughable than the magic cork. It's bad logic, bad science and bad storytelling.
I mentioned this the first time I saw the episode, but Jack's final fight with Locke feels a lot like the end battles in both The Matrix Revolutions and Star Trek III. They seem to have stolen the slow-motion face punch in the rain directly from The Matrix.
There's a point when Kate and Sawyer jump off a cliff and swim to the boat. This moment seems to recall their dives into the lagoon way back in season one.
At the end of the episode, Hurley is made the new leader of the island and Ben is his number two guy. Ben tells Hurley to start by getting Desmond home. That's a noble goal. Hurley says that people can't leave the island, and Ben replies, "That's how Jacob ran things." He implies it's not the way it has to be. ...So this whole time you CAN leave the island? We know you can if you follow a certain bearing, but I mean philosophically. The whole point of the show was that the Man in Black was angry that he couldn't leave the island; this entire conflict was over the fact that he couldn't leave the island, and now we find that you really can leave the island? We're essentially told in this scene that all of this was meaningless. That doesn't quite sit well with me, and I'm not sure what it means. Is the magic bubble surrounding the island still there?
On the whole, the finale isn't terrible and features some good suspenseful moments, such as getting the plane fixed. I was glad to see that I predicted correctly the final moments. And yet, those moments also hamper the episode because it keeps us from knowing what happens beyond this point. We were promised a definitive ending,but is that really what we got? The island goes back to the way it was, but there is still someone left behind to guard it and what's to stop this from happening again? Desmond's role in it all ended up being mostly meaningless it seems. The logic behind the starting and stopping of the magic light water doesn't quite make sense to me. In attempting to take the show so far into a mystical direction, I think the writers lost sight of how to keep it making sense. It's a shame the fate of many characters is left unknown. Even though we see them again (dead), it's not the same. Actually, it's worse now because we had already seen life off the island once before. I might have preferred getting another flash forward to everyone's future lives than to their deaths. I guess in the end it was just all about Jack, and regarding everyone else we will always be lost.
ANSWERED QUESTIONS: What is at the heart of the island?
UNANSWERED QUESTIONS: Did Rose and Bernard find Desmond, or did Sayid bring him to them when he freed him from the well? Vincent's tracks are found by the well, implying he was found. But what did Sayid do with him when he let him out then? And why didn't Des just run off? I guess I have to assume maybe Sayid let him out at the same time Bernard came by with Vincent. It makes sense for Sayid to have convinced them to take Desmond since Rose considered it "breaking their rule." But I shouldn't have to do these kind of mental gymnastics.
My notes say: "Des knows bright light?" I'm not sure what that means. I think maybe it means that he knows he's going to find the bright light at the heart of the island, and perhaps I was questioning how he knows this. I don't know.
In the previous episode, Miles grabbed a walkie-talkie and ran off from the Barracks. Shortly afterward, the Smoke Monster grabbed Richard and flung him into the jungle. We can assume this is close proximity to the Barracks. But Miles only now stumbles upon Richard passed out. So my question is, where the heck was Miles for a day? Almost a whole day goes by between these two events! Where was Miles hiding? What was he doing? If he got far away, was he backtracking when he found Richard? At this point in the show the writers were very sloppy about moving characters around.
So if we've established that Desmond did indeed go to the sideways universe, WHY did that happen? What made the electromagnetic exposure different this time that it would send him to a metaphysical realm? Did he in fact die?
Jack's big plan seems to be to lower Desmond down into the cave of light to somehow fix things. ...But why would lowering Desmond down there fix anything? Just because Desmond survived massive EM events doesn't mean he has magical powers. What makes any of them think that Des will be able to do anything (and he only sort of does, and it's only sort of helpful)?
This hole with the cork and the magic water pool; is that the volcano? We know there is a volcano on the island somewhere, and it does seem to start emitting fiery magma when Desmond uncorks it and the ground shakes. So is this the volcano or not?
Down in the cave, there are skeletal remains. Whose bodies are those? Are they previous people who tried to stop this all? Are they remnants that indicate to us this has all happened before? I can't tell if it's one body or not the way that it's shot. We might think that it's the Man in Black but this CANNOT be. Remember, his body was expelled from the cave after he became smoke, and Jacob hid him at the caves. So who is this body, and what does its presence here signify?
Why did uncorking the island suddenly make Locke mortal? How are those two points connected in any way. And frankly here's another question; if Locke is now mortal again and cannot become Smoke, does that mean he's still the evil that cannot leave the island? Would it really destroy the world if he were to leave now? It's all just some strange plot device so that Jack can kill him. And weirder still is that after all of the deaths by gunshot on this show, the final fight is hand to hand. There's a certain parallel to Jack fighting Ethan back in season one; he's not traditionally been good in these "fair fight" situations. Then again, Jack is mortally wounded during this fight and it's ultimately Kate's bullet that kills Locke! ...So the fight was just for dramatic effect and to set the stage for Jack's death.
I know there must be some level at which the mysticism of the island's mechanics just has to be accepted. But how is it that water is flowing in the same fissure that the magma was coming from? Where does the magic water come from when it fills the pool back up? Why did all the water suddenly dry up when the hole was uncorked? The water doesn't COME from the hole, it comes in a waterfall from above, right? So where does that come from and why did it magically stop flowing? There's a river outside flowing in here!
Why isn't Jack immortal? Jacob was certainly ageless when he was in charge. He also seemed to be immortal until the Man in Black found his loophole. Though it's hard to know if no one could kill him or if just his brother couldn't. Still, Richard was immortal too and when Jacob did that he said, "now you are like me", didn't he? So why is Jack not immortal when he's the island's leader? Or maybe he is, and that's why he survived so long until he passed it on to Hurley? Odd though that he's not invincible.
Now we get all of the crazy unanswered questions regarding the fate of all the other Losties that the show couldn't bother to tell us.
Does the plane have enough fuel to get them back? It was on a flight from L.A. to Guam! It hasn't refueled at all on the island. So it's clear to me that this plane is definitely not making it very far. Is Lapidus going to set it down on the first land he sees?
How does Hurley get Desmond off the island? Does he take the sailboat?
Do Cindy and the kids ever get off of the island? It seems unfair to the kids to be exiled forever on this rock when they didn't do anything. Don't they deserve to see their mommy again after three years? Then again, if they were to come back, how would that be explained to their mother, who was told they died in the crash? Maybe they'd keep it all under wraps like Michael tried to do.
Are the remaining Others still around somewhere?
Speaking of supposedly dead Oceanic folk, what does Sawyer tell everyone? What becomes of him? Does anyone ever find out he was a survivor of that crash?
Does the media learn that much of the Oceanic Six's story was fabricated? At the very least there were other survivors. Does this information get out, and if not how do the Losties keep it secret?
What becomes of Aaron now? Does Claire take him? What does Kate tell him? Do they raise him together?
Speaking of Kate, she has GOT to be facing jail time now! She was only let off the last time on the condition that she not leave the state, and within a few months she left the country! There's no way she gets away with that; somebody had to have seen her at the airport. So she either goes on the run yet again, or she finally takes her punishment. Either way, things can't end well for Kate. And the funny thing is, this was always the fear for her leaving the island from the start of the show. Then the series wrote themselves out of it by putting her on trial. Yet that same episode also ultimately damns her again!
What becomes of Richard once he leaves the island? The world is a VASTLY different place from the one he left centuries ago. Then again, he has been going off-island for some time now (such as recruiting Juliet). Does he have fake identification to get by with? Does he know how to drive? Will he settle in America or elsewhere?
How does Jack get out of the cave? One minute he's down at the bottom, then suddenly we see him outside groping through the jungle. Did the light magically transport him out, the same way it seemed to spit the Man in Black's body out?
Does anyone bury Jack?
Reflections from the vault... The first shot we see on-island is of jack in the water, and we see the sunlight reflecting prominently off of the surface. This image of light and water struck me, considering the importance of the water and light in the cave. This shot was intentional, and to have it be the first island shot of the episode drives the theme home subtextually.
unfortunately the reappearance of Rose and Bernard also creates a major continuity question. They built that little house and all in the 1970s. Then they flashed forward in time with everyone else after the Incident. But the house doesn't time travel with them. In the time travel we saw in season 5, the only objects that traveled with you were ones you were in contact with. So it is impossible that their entire living complex traveled with them. This means that either A) their house remained untouched and undiscovered for thirty years on the island until they flashed back into it and took up residence again or B) it was destroyed at some point in the thirty years and they rebuilt it. Rose's statement strongly implies it wasn't B, but I think that the other scenario strains credibility. I'm willing to suspend disbelief about a magical cave of light never being found, but a big house? Nobody ever came across it in thirty years? And it didn't even show any wear!
I was bummed that Lapidus survived the submarine sinking, but not Jin and Sun. I know Sun was trapped, so maybe she was done, but it seemed a little unfair, especially since Lapidus is there only as a narrative function to get the plane in the air.
have to say, I was fine going along with the metaphor this season that the island was like a cork. ...But Desmond got down to the heart of the island and we learn that the island has a LITERAL cork. That to me really stretched credibility and bordered on the silly. What exactly does this cork do? It lets bad stuff out? That's it? If the electromagnetic magical light or whatever is harmful to most humans, why exactly does this spot need to be protected? Isn't it unlikely that anyone besides a Desmond (Arthurian?) figure could pull the stone out?
Did the volcano ever erupt before? If so, was it a catastrophic uncorking event, or something different? Is this cork chamber a low-tech ancient version of the Swan Hatch in its own way, trying to contain massive geothermal energy from escaping and wreaking havoc?
Best line of the night goes to Miles: "I don't believe in a lot of things, but I do believe in duct tape." That's a motto to live by.
Next Assignment: "The New Man in Charge"
-TK
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Jul 6, 2012 14:38:26 GMT -5
Post by TrekBeatTK on Jul 6, 2012 14:38:26 GMT -5
EPISODES COVERED: "The New Man in Charge" special extra DVD epilogue
TIMELINE: 2010? Ben comes to a Dharma packing facility in Guam, the one that sends the food drops, and tells them that their job is done. He hands them generous severance pay in cash. Ben agrees to answer a few questions for the two Dharma workers. Ben shows them the orientation video for the Hydra Station. The video explains about the experiments with polar bears, that the electromagnetism from the Orchid is harmful to pregnancy, and that Room 23 was an interrogation room for the Hostiles.
Ben visits Walt at Santa Rosa. He apologizes for kidnapping him before. Ben tells Walt that because he's special he can help Michael, even though he's dead. Ben checks Walt out of Santa Rosa. They meet Hurley, waiting for them in the van outside. Ben and Hurley take Walt to the island, and Hurley tells Walt he wants to talk to him "about a job."
Hurley, Ben and Walt return to the island
REFLECTIONS: I was surprised when the season 6 DVD was released and they were including a special feature as a kind of wrap-up to the series. It's existence did address things that the finale didn't, which in a way made the finale all the more frustrating because we didn't get to learn this stuff then. I mean, to not close out Walt's story in the finale was silly, especially because we had been told by Damon and Carlton in a live event shortly before the finale that Walt would be appearing again. When he was nowhere to be found in the finale, I felt cheated. But since they said that, we can deduce that the existence of "The New Man in Charge" was at some stage then. So I'm not sure whether to be grateful we got some additional answers after the finale, or to be annoyed that they made us wait six months after the show finished. Regardless, certain things that fans had been asking about, and some things we were promised there would be answers to, were finally answered.
Ben goes to the Dharma facility in Guam and pays off the two men still there loading the food drops. It was great to finally learn where those came from, since it had been a lingering question from season 2. I do forget though if it was ever mentioned who flew them over the island; were they automated drones? I guess it doesn't matter since the location is different every time due to the island moving. There were no regular flights overhead. But I got to wondering about that severance pay; was it Ben's money or was it Hurley's? We know Ben has access to a lot of money off-island. But Hurley was a lottery winner. Whatever became of the rest of the money? Did he just let his family have it? Ben does say it is from the "new man in charge", but I don't know if that's meant to be literal or not.
One of the Dharma guys tells Ben, "We deserve answers!" Indeed, throughout this piece these guys will act in proxy for the LOST fanbase. They demand answers of Ben, who ultimately makes them watch a DVD, just like we are getting answers on this DVD. Making it a literal DVD that Ben pops in is a bit of meta-cuteness.
In the video, Dr. Chang says that for security purposes, his name is not to be repeated. I'm not sure what those security purposes are, but it's the only answer we ever get for his aliases. Is it security from the Hostiles?
In the video, there is a large maze on a table, very much like the one Daniel Faraday was using for Eloise. I wonder if Dharma were running similar experiments.
My favorite line is this whole piece is "the bears are not your friends." I would love to see that on T-shirts. Dr. Chang explains that polar bears are dangerous (because people are stupid), and that one guy didn't respect the bears and lost his arm! Isn't it funny how losing an arm became a recurring theme on this show?
We also get an answer to one of the biggest questions of the entire series: just why women couldn't get pregnant on the island. Dr. Chang explicitly says here that the excavation at the Orchid station was releasing radiation that disrupts early pregnancy. So it would seem that Dharma and specifically the Orchid station are responsible. In a weird science-fiction way, that makes perfect sense since it's a time travel station; disrupting the flow of time could disrupt the development of new tissue. Same thing happened in the finale of Star Trek: The Next Generation. It would also seem that perhaps in the beginning proximity to the Orchid was a factor in the pregnancy troubles. Chang says that if any of the bears are pregnant they should not be brought over. This suggests that it didn't effect things on Hydra island. Of course, that suggests that Juliet could have just set up a maternity ward on Hydra island and saved everyone. But maybe we are meant to think the effects got worse over time. Still, it is nice to know that it was a recent problem, thus explaining how it was that Ethan was born on-island, since it was early in the Orchid excavation. It isn't a perfect explanation for everything, but I'm glad they finally just said; here's why. How hard was that? What prevented them from somehow saying that before? Of course, as we'll see, the fact that this answer came via Dharma video opens giant holes. But I was glad it was finally addressed again.
The numbering of the Dharma stations and the timeline for the recording of the various orientation films again makes no sense. Here, the Hydra is station 1. That's ridiculous. As it is, there are already too many stations, and the Swan film said there were 6. Also, this video seems to be the earliest since he hasn't started using an alias yet. But it's always bothered me that there doesn't seem to be a logical sequence for the recording of these films. ...And why was the Swan film on actual film but the others were not?
It's interesting that the Dharma Initiative had learned enough about Jacob that they came to think he was some "island deity" that the Hostiles worshipped. It's funny because it is somewhat true. This also helps explain the presence of "God loves you as he loved Jacob" in the Room 23 images. Before this, I was always confused about how much Dharma knew about Jacob. When it was just Ben and the Others who feared him, that was okay, but when you realized that they didn't make Room 23 and that it was leftover from Dharma, that meant questions of why Jacob was mentioned. We learn here that Dharma put it there as a way of brainwashing Hostiles they might capture.
Room 23 was created to interrogate Hostiles. But just to cover their butts for continuity's sake, the writers here say that the effects of Room 23 and the drugs that administer during it leave the subject with amnesia, so they won't remember having been taken there. Unfortunately, both Carl and Walt remember being taken there. Had the Others not used the drugs that Dharma did along with it? Is that perhaps why the amnesia didn't set in? It is cool that the Others began using Room 23 considering that it was created to be used on them.
After the video, the two guys still have questions, but Ben very tongue-in-cheek says, "Sorry, we're out of time." And that of course is the writers speaking directly to us as if to say, "You're not getting anymore. Be glad we gave you this much!"
The second half of the piece takes us to see Walt. Ben and Hurley take Walt back to the island where he belongs. This is a nice way to come full circle to season one, since Walt never wanted to leave the island anyway. They go back and it is hinted that he can help his father somehow. While it is great to finally get Walt's story back into the show, ultimately we know no more about his special abilities than before, nor what they will be used for. We don't know why Ben initially wanted him, or if it's involved in what they are doing now. Still, it was good to see Ben apologize, and to at least not leave that thread so obviously dangling. But... it's very clear that this scene cries out the possibility of a sequel or follow-up series about Walt on the island. I thought we were assured there was a definite end! Sorry, jumping ahead in time to when they are all dead doesn't mean you can't tell us things that happened before; particularly in a series that jumped around in time for its entire run!
ANSWERED QUESTIONS: The Dharma food drop facility is in Guam. That seems to be coincidental to the Ajira flight going to Guam, but at least it's somewhere in the Pacific.
We learn who was sending the food drops, and that they are automated. A computer gives the guys a location, and they just send the food.
The Hydra was Station 1
Dr. Chang used aliases for security purposes
The "Hurley bird" was a genetic hybrid, which the Dharma Initiative had been experimenting with.
As if it wasn't clear before, the polar bear experiments were explained. They were chosen because of their memory skills to be test subjects for the Orchid station. Also because they thrive in cold temperatures, which means the frozen donkey wheel room, which is what I always suspected. Though that implies that Dharma already knew that room would be freezing cold even before it was excavated, which makes no sense. The prevailing logic would be deeper underground would not be frozen over. And we still don't know WHY it was frozen over. But at least we know that's why they used polar bears.
The electromagnetism levels at the Orchid station are harmful to gestation
Walt was going under the alias of Keith Johnson.
UNANSWERED QUESTIONS: Let's take that one first: Keith Johnson. We know that when Michael and Walt returned to New York they were living under different names. But Kevin Johnson seemed to be a new identity for Michael on the freighter, implying he had a third identity before that. So why was Walt known as Keith Johnson? Logic suggests this is a third identity for him too. Who gave it to him? Who checked him into Santa Rosa? Were Ben's people involved?
The onscreen legend says that it is "The Present". But what does that mean? When we last left the island it was roughly late 2007 or maybe early 2008. But the DVD didn't come out until 2010. So is it "the present" 2008, or 2010? If the latter, what had Hurley and Ben been doing for those few years in between, and why did it take them so long to bring back Walt and pay off the Dharma guys. Did another food drop show up one day and Hurley suddenly thought, "Dude, we should do something about that"?
The two Dharma guys say that haven't seen anyone from management in 20 years. How long have they been down there? Do they live there, or do they go home every night to their families? If nothing has changed for them in 20 years, who was still paying their salaries? Or maybe they don't have any, which would suggest their living there. But if that's the case, why do they have a DVD player? Where would that have come from? It would not have come from Dharma, so it would have been provided from outside somehow. Frankly, I sort of wish it had just been a VHS machine. It would have lost the meta-DVD joke, but it would have been easier for me to accept.
Just what did happen that caused Chang to start using aliases?
And now the big questions regarding the existence of this tape and the pregnancies. First, if gestational anomalies were a new phenomenon, what was the purpose of the Tawaret statue? We still don't know who built it or why. But more importantly, if Dr. Chang knew that the Orchid was causing the problems, and Ben had this tape the whole time, why did he need Juliet to come to the island and figure out what was wrong? She wasn't just trying to save them, she was trying to figure out the cause. But now we're told that they basically knew the cause! Or was she just there to figure out the specifics so she could find a cure? Either way, neither Ben nor Juliet ever behaved as if they knew anything about the cause, just that it happened on the island for some reason. And as I asked before, was Hydra Island safe from these effects?
So did Dharma ever actually capture any Hostiles and take them to Room 23? The definitely seem to have interrogated a few since they learned of Jacob. But whether Room 23 was ever used on them, we don't know.
At the end, Ben and Hurley suggest they have "a job" for Walt. Is Walt going to be the next protector of the island? Is he in charge after Ben and Hurley die?
How is Walt going to "help" his father?
How often do Ben and Hurley leave the island? We know that they brought Desmond home. What became of Cindy and the kids? Did they ever get back to their mom? Does anyone ever visit Ji Yeon? Does she come to the island too?
Reflections from the vault... it answers more questions in 12 minutes than the entire finale did in 2 and a half hours.
Anyway, after this Ben leaves the two guys (one of them says "We need to see that again!"). Ben then goes to Santa Rosa where he wishes to visit "Keith Johnson". As you'd suspect, this person turns out to be Walt. There are a number of questions this raises. Why is Walt in Los Angeles, and why is he in Santa Rosa? Does he think he's crazy? Did he do something "special" again that put him there? He also knows that Michael is dead. How did he find out? Who told him? Or could he just sense it with his magic Walt powers?
When Walt protests that his father is dead, Ben says "that doesn't mean you can't help him." This is nice because not only do we actually get a bit of closure for Walt, but we are also given hope for Michael. The way the series ended, he was just a miserable ghost, which was a bummer. Here, we are led to believe that he and Walt will finally reunite, and maybe things will get better. Maybe a trip to the magical light in the other-worldly church is not far off for them.
After Battlestar Galactica ended, a movie came out called "The Plan" purporting to give answers to questions from the show. I found it disjointed and most of the "answers" were either nonsense or things I'd already figured out. "The New Man in Charge" serves a similar function. It is far shorter, which in some ways is a shame, but it gives far more useful answers. It does make me feel better about the end of the series than before. While I would have liked a few answers to the things still hanging out there (who broadcast the numbers??), this bit was a welcome addition to Lost canon. Not quite an episode, but far more than one of the webisodes, it's a cryptic but concrete expression of what Lost was and could be, boiled down to a few minutes for the fans.
Next Assignment: the flash-sideways bits of "LA X", "What Kate Does", a bit of "Happily Ever After" and "The Package" and "Sundown" and "The Substitute".
-TK
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lost
Jul 13, 2012 14:14:09 GMT -5
Post by TrekBeatTK on Jul 13, 2012 14:14:09 GMT -5
EPISODES COVERED: "LA X", "What Kate Does", "The Substitute", "Sundown", "The Package", "Happily Ever After"
TIMELINE: Alt-SEPT 22, 2004 Oceanic 815 is over the Pacific Cindy brings Jack a drink Jack talks with Rose After some turbulence, Bernard returns from the bathroom Jack goes to bathroom and finds a wound on his neck Jack meets Desmond, who seems strangely familiar, as the plane passes over the island, which is underwater Jack meets the Marshall waiting for Kate outside the bathroom Arzt talks with Hurley and Sawyer Hurley says nothing bad ever happens to him Jin and Sun watch Rose and Bernard Locke talks with Boone Charlie locks himself in the bathroom A half-hour later, Jack is brought in to help and Sayid kicks the door open Charlie is found unconscious Jack pulls a bag of heroin from Charlie’s throat and revives him Charlie is taken into custody. He tells Jack, “I was supposed to die” The plane lands in Los Angeles At LAX, Jack is called to the courtesy desk and informed that his father’s coffin was lost Kate asks to go to the bathroom. She tries to pick the lock on her cuffs, but is caught so she attacks the Marshall and steals his coat Sawyer holds the elevator for Kate Sawyer spots Kate’s cuffs, but helps her elude security Hurley tells Desmond that their luggage is at carousel 4. Desmond meets Claire at baggage claim. He offers her a ride, which she refuses, and says he thinks her baby is a boy. Minkowski is waiting to pick Desmond up. (“Happily Ever After”) Jin and Sun are stopped at customs When undeclared cash is found in the luggage, Jin is taken away Sun claims not to understand English Kate sneaks out of the airport Kate cuts the line and hops in Claire’s cab, holding the driver at gunpoint The cab stops while Arzt is in the road and Claire tries to escape but Kate stops her A little further along, the driver ditches Kate hops in the driver’s seat, and tells Claire to get out Jack talks to his mom on the phone Jack meets Locke, who has lost his bag of knives Jack gives Locke his card Kate stops at an auto shop and removes her cuffs with a punch press Kate takes Claire’s bag into the bathroom to change clothes, and discovers baby-related items Kate returns to Claire and offers to drive her to her destination Claire is going to see the couple adopting her baby, who were supposed to meet her at the airport Jin’s belongings are returned, but the money is confiscated. Jin is upset that he’s missed the meeting. He tells Sun that he was supposed to deliver the money with the watch, and that he didn’t ask her father why (“The Package”) Kate and Claire arrive at the house. The woman tells her that her husband left her, and she can’t raise a baby alone On the stoop, Claire starts having contractions Kate rushes Claire to the hospital Ethan is a doctor who comes in to halt Claire’s labor Claire names the baby Aaron Locke returns home and falls on the lawn. Helen brings him inside. Locke bathes while he and Helen plan their wedding. Helen tells Locke he should call Jack. (“The Substitute”) Sayid arrives at Nadia’s house. She is married to his brother (“Sundown”) Sun and Jin check into a hotel with separate rooms, since they aren’t married (“The Package”) Some detectives stop by looking for Kate, but Claire tells them nothing while Kate hides in the bathroom Claire gives Kate her credit card as a thank you, and Kate leaves Desmond goes to see Widmore. Widmore gets a call about Charlie in jail; DriveShaft are to play at a charity event, and he assigns Desmond to pick Charlie up and babysit him. Desmond and Widmore share drinks of McCutcheon (“Happily Ever After”) Jin comes to Sun’s hotel room and they have sex (“The Package”)
REFLECTIONS: It is going to be difficult doing these reflections for the sideways universe, since I hadn't worked out the chronology for it beforehand, and I'm having to do it on the fly. To make things worse, time doesn't seem to always make sense in the sideways universe. The writers started to compress things toward the second half of the season, so days seem to go missing. Whether this is all part of the timelessness of the bizarre purgatory world this is or just the writers being idiots I don't know, though I'm inclined to think it is the latter.
I know that technically they are all dead and this takes place at some future time outside of time, but I figured the best way to keep daily track of it was to use the September dates as if the plane never crashed, which is how it plays out even though it isn't actually an alternate timeline.
Things definitely play differently knowing that they are all dead and that this isn't just an alternate timeline. After all, I'm not sure why the bomb detonating would have effected Sun and Jin's marriage or made Hurley lucky instead of unlucky. ...In fact, from that logic we have to wonder what numbers Hurley played that won the lottery this time. Some of these changes just wouldn't come about because of the bomb detonating. So on one hand, the fact that it's all a separate invented universe works. But the fact that everyone is dead, and that we are later told the world was CREATED by the Losties so they could find each other opens up all new problems.
I do like that it opens again with (almost) everyone on the plane. It's almost like the plane is a boat on the river Styx, transporting our Losties on their journey to the other side. This could have been made even more literal had all of them been on the plane, but they weren't. Of course, early on the writers were trying to pretend it was an alternate timeline.
Yet it seems that they knew from the beginning that there was more to this world than that. When we first see Jack, he seems disoriented. Consider this as occurring immediately after his death on the island, and that jump works even better. For him, the next thing he knows he's waking up in a scenario that seems both familiar and unfamiliar. Shortly after, Jack will look at his reflection and find a cut on his neck. This could not have happened during the turbulence. So we are left at first wondering how this happened. It's only in retrospect that we know it's from when Locke held a knife to his throat. This is a sign to us that not everything here is as it seems, and a signal to Jack reminding him of his death. His wounds will continue to pop up every now and again until he finally accepts them in the finale. I wonder then, if this was the plan all along, why were the writers so coy about maintaining the ruse of the alternate timeline, and why is the continuity in the flash-sideways so off at times?
After the moment of turbulence, Rose says to Jack, "You can let go now." When we know now that this is the afterlife, and that all of this will be about connecting with people and letting go of the previous life, this line holds weight. Indeed, it will sum up all of the flash-sideways.
The first real indication for the audience that this go around is going to be different from the first time is that Desmond is on the plane. At the time it aired, we were thinking, "What happened in those three years that made Desmond's life so different and brought him to Australia?" In the end, none of that really matters because he's dead like all the rest of them.
And then we are treated to this crazy shot that zooms out of the plane, down under the sea, and we find that the island is in fact underwater. I'm going to leave it for the unanswered questions to really deal with this, but it seems the writers were just making a point of saying that the island doesn't figure at all in this universe. But again, we were first being teased with this being an alternate timeline, so we were left wondering what happened that physically sunk the island. Then later on all that stuff about sinking the island made us recall this image, and yet I maintain that you CAN'T sink an island!
Some other differences from the original flight to this one include Hurley now being super lucky, Locke actually getting to go on the walkabout, and Shannon staying behind in Australia.
I really enjoy that little moment between Boone and Locke. It was nice to see their dynamic again, and even though Boone died BECAUSE of Locke, his dead self still says, "If this plane goes down, I'm sticking with you."
When Charlie is unconscious in the bathroom, Jack thinks he made need to perform a tracheotomy and in a great callback to the pilot starts asking for a pen. I love little nods like this when they work. Similarly, Charlie in the bathroom with heroin is a more oblique nod to the pilot, since that's what he was doing when the plane crashed.
I will not be making many connections in these reflections to the other events "on island" in the episode, but I did spot one juxtaposition that I liked. The scene where Jack saves Charlie cuts back to the scene of Sawyer pulling Juliet's body from the hatch. Sawyer blames Jack for her death. So the episode is edited to contrast Jack the killer with Jack the life-saver. I found that interesting.
Poor Jack's troubles are never over! He now has to argue with a guy at the airport because his father's coffin wasn't on the plane! I wonder if he had to fight to get it on the plane in this universe too.
In this universe, Sun doesn't speak English. It's odd that Sun dies and forgets how to speak English. The in-universe explanation makes sense though; they are not married yet (WHY??), and the only reason she learned English originally was to leave him and go to America. But the Kwons seem pretty happy these days, so English isn't necessary. I do like this return to them both as Korean outsiders. When they were finally both running around speaking English, the show lost a little something.
This is a useless piece of trivia, but according to the board Desmond was looking at in "Happily Ever After," flight 815 arrived in Los Angeles at 10:22 a.m.
Jack has a conversation with Locke while they're both trying to deal with their lost luggage. Jack tells Locke that the airline lost his father and Locke says, "They didn't lose your father, they just lost his body." This is another sly indication that there is life beyond the body, and a possible hint at the nature of this universe.
Jack tells Locke that "nothing is irreversible." This phrase will repeat a few more times during the season. At the time, we were left to think they meant the timeline and all, but now the line really doesn't make any sense. It has no real impact. It was written to sound profound and possibly important, but it's not. Because everyone is still dead and none of that changes. Frankly, reversing Locke's spinal injury doesn't matter anyway since it's all just in their heads or whatever and none of this is real. Or is it?
As episodes went on, I started to realize just how frequently Kate is in the bathroom! The first time we see her, she's coming out of the bathroom. Then once they land, that's where she goes. Then she changes clothes in a bathroom. Later she hides in a bathroom. We see her in a bathroom four times in one day. Guess they couldn't figure a way to work a shower in there.
The woman who was going to adopt Claire's baby is a jerk! Fine, you've had a hard time and all, but you couldn't tell her you weren't coming? Or not to get on the plane at all? What did you think was going to happen? Did her husband leave her just that morning? That's the only excuse I can think of for not saying anything until Claire showed up at her door.
In the hospital, a doctor comes in to see Claire and of course it's Ethan. They even put in cutesy lines like "I don't want to stick you with needles if I don't have to". I noticed that now Ethan's last name is Goodspeed. That was Horace's last name. So what does that tell us? Why was his last name Rom on the island? Or was that an alias? Or was that Amy's last name, and he never took Horace's name?
I like that Kate was using the alias Joan Hart again from way back in season one ("Born to Run").
When Locke gets home, he falls on the lawn and the sprinklers come on. That felt to me like a sly nod to how the rain would fall on Locke on the island.
Locke lied to Helen about why he was in Australia, and didn't tell her about the walkabout. Even in a seemingly better alternate universe, he's still lying to her! What's his motivation this time?
I'll deal with this more later, but the Desmond timeline as seen in "Happily Ever After" is odd. That episode makes it seem like he goes right from Widmore's office to pick up Charlie, or at least goes the following day. This cannot be the case. Several days go by before Charlie is released from jail. I wonder what Des was doing in the interim.
ANSWERED QUESTIONS: Where did the wound on Jack's neck come from?
UNANSWERED QUESTIONS: Why is the island underwater? Since nothing actually happened to put the island underwater, why is it there? I mean, why is it even in this universe at all? Not only that, but it also has the Barracks and the statue foot intact! If this universe was indeed created by the Losties, why did they put it underwater?
Is everyone in this world dead? Are some people just ciphers, projected/created by the Losties to fill out the world believably? Is everyone on that plane one of the original crash victims or are there others? Why don't any of them get to go to the church at the end? It's also odd that some of these people turn up in the universe but not on the plane. Juliet for example is not on the plane, and she was one of them. I get that only some of them knew Minkowsky, but Ben isn't on the plane either and yet he's in this world. Why are some on the plane and some not? What about that woman who was going to adopt Claire's baby? Is she real? Is she some dead person? Is her husband real? Will they cross over later? It's like the show doesn't know whether EVERYONE who dies ends up here in a kind of holding area, or if it's just the Losties. It being the Losties makes sense since it's all set around a date that was significant to them. But then again, there are a lot of other people. Christian's line might be interpreted to mean that only the church was created by all of them, as a place to meet. But either way, this world is confusing to me.
Everyone here is already dead, and yet they all died at different times. So is this place all outside of time, and everyone just zaps there when they die, as if it is instantaneous even though time has passed? How does that work exactly?
What's the point of having an afterlife where you completely forget your previous life, but then the whole point is to remember your prior life before going on to the REAL afterlife? That whole concept is so bizarre and pointless to me.
Is there any significance to the fact that Desmond seemed to disappear on the plane? There's a moment when Jack goes, "Did you see the man who was sitting right there?" I guess we're just meant to assume he went back to another seat in the back of the plane. But then, why did he move up front in the first place? Or vice versa; I don't remember where he was sitting originally.
There are all kinds of questions that come up along the lines of "Why would the bomb effect...?" but since this ultimately has nothing to do with the bomb, those questions are irrelevant.
Reflections from the vault... I like Bernard's line when he comes back from the bathroom: "I almost died back there".
Next Assignment: Locke gets fired and tries to get another job "The Substitute", Nadia's husband dies "Sundown", Sawyer is a cop and meets Charlotte "Recon", a dinner held for Hurley "Everybody Loves Hugo", Jack's story "Lighthouse"
-TK
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