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Post by StarFuryG7 on Aug 20, 2013 18:19:00 GMT -5
He may have a point, TK, but he's not particularly original or creative as I said. He's whining that he couldn't serialize ENT as though that was the major problem with it despite its inconsistencies as a prequel series and its shortfalls in that regard from the very start. And also as pointed out, serializing had already been done in the prior shows, so what what was it about "Enterprise" that made it so crucial or such a unique idea?
I also think a really creative writer would have either found a way to work it in there, even if it wasn't to the extent that he wanted, but would have made it work to a degree regardless.
Also, I am by no means a fan of Voyager's "Year of Hell" the way you are and can't imagine what would have been so great about it had it actually dragged on for an entire season.
Yes, I know --the studio executives can be a pain in the ass, but even the original series wasn't made without such pressure being brought to bear, and yet, a healthy chunk of the third season aside, I think things didn't turn out all that bad once all was said and done. We got some great and classic sci-fi from that show in spite of the interference. Harlan Ellison bellowed for years about how is script for "The City On the Edge of Forever" was tampered with and altered, and yet, it is widely considered to be the best episode of the whole darn series.
My point is, truly creative people find ways to compensate, and Braga simply lacks the imagination to have been able to pull such a feat off. He's a hack, and what we got from him was typical mediocrity and hack material, and yet, some of it is probably his best work, which in itself says a great deal.
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Post by TrekBeatTK on Aug 20, 2013 20:10:14 GMT -5
Year of Hell would have worked better as a season arc because the 2-parter we got had no real stakes. Played out that way, we knew a reset button was coming. But over a whole season, actions would have consequences and character deaths would mean something and we'd have no way of knowing if it were permanent. It would be more impactful. And also would force them to really deal with the issue of depleting resources in a way they usually didn't on Voyager. They rightly deserve flack for the endless shuttlecrafts and stuff; if the season builds to the destruction of Voyager, that forces them to keep better track.
Of course, we'd end up with a Patrick Duffy in the shower next season, which would be it's own problem.
Speaking of which, Braga has only himself to blame for the ridiculous ending of ENT season 3. We have a pretty great arc that ends with alien Nazis for no reason?
-TK
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Post by StarFuryG7 on Aug 22, 2013 10:11:56 GMT -5
Bear in mind that when I post these articles, I sometimes haven't read them yet, such as now.
But this is recycled news.
Over at Blastr:Apparently, Enterprise S1 was supposed to be entirely Earth-boundBy Trent Moore Wed, 08/21/2013  Throughout its run, the Star Trek prequel series Enterprise went through more than a few crises of identity — but apparently there was one we never heard about.
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Post by TK on Aug 22, 2013 13:19:53 GMT -5
The Blastr article has a link to the longer story on Aint It Cool News, which is worth a read.
We can rag on Braga for things like the awful finale, but when you read that studio execs wanted boy band guest spots on the series, you can sympathize with him on the issueof studio interference.
Maybe Star Trek should have stayed syndicated.
-TK
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Post by StarFuryG7 on Aug 6, 2014 19:36:12 GMT -5
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Post by TrekBeatTK on Aug 6, 2014 20:54:03 GMT -5
I read this this morning but didn't comment. I think the author did a good job pointing out the flaws in the series while highlighting good points, as well as points of contention. Overall, I thought his chosen 10 episodes were good picks with two exceptions: 1) Twilight -- I just don't get the appeal of this one, and never did. But there's nothing inherently wrong with it and fans seem to like it. I just don't get why. 2) Stigma -- This one I took issue with. They just HAD to do a sequel to the prior episode about mind melds which already had bothered fans. And while I appreciate getting back to the intimacy of melding which Spock had alluded to all in "Dagger of the Mind" (melding had become far too ubiquitous in later Trek), this was all just a bag allegory about AIDS and tolerance for homosexuals, and it was far too hamfisted for me. They even had a little blurb onscreen about HIV or something at the end of the episode. Like it was a "very special episode". It might be more fun to pick the 10 WORST Enterprise episodes -- a lot more difficult to choose. I'd pick "These Are the Voyages", "E-squared" and "Precious Cargo" for starters. -TK |
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Post by StarFuryG7 on Aug 7, 2014 16:55:58 GMT -5
Honestly, I haven't even read this article, but would like to take a look at it when I have a chance. Unfortunately it couldn't be today, however. :/
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Post by TrekBeatTK on Aug 21, 2014 19:00:29 GMT -5
So do you think ENT takes place in the original prime timeline pre-TOS and was always the way the timeline unfolded, or do you think ENT is set in an altered timeline? I think the latter, though I think it's still the prime timeline, just that it's been tweaked a bit. But no way did the events of ENT unfold as we saw them before TOS. I view it as a post-First Contact alteration, that the timeline after the "restoration" of events at the end of that movie is actually slightly different from the original timeline.
But I'm curious what the rest of you think (beyond "THERE ARE NO CLOAKING DEVICES IN THE 22ND CENTURY!" -- ah, those were the days, right?)
I'm in an argument with a guy over on Reddit who is convinced that it's a simple causality loop and that First Contact did not alter the time stream and therefore ENT is not an alternate timeline.
I have finally just now posted the quote from Braga saying that "the timeline was altered".
Do you think the JJ movies are in continuity with ENT, or are they a separate timeline/universe entirely?
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Post by StarFuryG7 on Aug 21, 2014 20:32:25 GMT -5
So do you think ENT takes place in the original prime timeline pre-TOS and was always the way the timeline unfolded, or do you think ENT is set in an altered timeline? I think the latter, though I think it's still the prime timeline, just that it's been tweaked a bit. But no way did the events of ENT unfold as we saw them before TOS. I view it as a post-First Contact alteration, that the timeline after the "restoration" of events at the end of that movie is actually slightly different from the original timeline. But I'm curious what the rest of you think (beyond "THERE ARE NO CLOAKING DEVICES IN THE 22ND CENTURY!" -- ah, those were the days, right?) I'm in an argument with a guy over on Reddit who is convinced that it's a simple causality loop and that First Contact did not alter the time stream and therefore ENT is not an alternate timeline. I have finally just now posted the quote from Braga saying that "the timeline was altered". Do you think the JJ movies are in continuity with ENT, or are they a separate timeline/universe entirely? You're a little late to that party dude. I put forth the argument last year over there that the events in ENT are part of the Abrams universe and timeline, not the prime universe or its timeline. It's obvious that "Enterprise" fits better into the Abramsverse than it does TOS. Incidentally, which subreddit are you having that discussion in over there ...r/startrek, r/Treknobabble, or the Daystrom Institute subreddit.? |
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Post by TrekBeatTK on Aug 21, 2014 20:41:57 GMT -5
This particular discussion sprung up over at Daystrom Institute. I don't even remember what the original thread is where this came up, as it was a tad tangential to the original post. Something about timeline divergence.
-TK
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Post by CRAMBAM on Aug 29, 2014 7:38:09 GMT -5
That's an interesting issue--but there are issues with that.
It's clear Enterprise, as we saw it unfold, because of the final episode, is a part of the prime timeline.
Plus, In The Mirror Darkly certainly has a ship from Tholian Web.
But the reality is, they played so many games with continuity that there's simply no way it can be reconciled with TOS.
There is no way the Abrams timeline can lead into the 24th century as we saw it.
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Post by TK on Aug 29, 2014 11:26:06 GMT -5
That's an interesting issue--but there are issues with that. It's clear Enterprise, as we saw it unfold, because of the final episode, is a part of the prime timeline. Plus, In The Mirror Darkly certainly has a ship from Tholian Web. But the reality is, they played so many games with continuity that there's simply no way it can be reconciled with TOS. There is no way the Abrams timeline can lead into the 24th century as we saw it.
All the final episode proves is that there was an Archer and NX-01 in the prime timeline. But since the events of that episode occurs years after most of what we saw, and since it was all a holodeck simulation anyway, it's quite possible that events as we saw them, while similar in some respects, might also differ greatly from what actually happened the first time.
In a Mirror Darkly doesn' t count because it's in a parallel universe and doesn't connect to the rest of ENT. So that's obviously in the prime timeline.
-TK
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Post by CRAMBAM on Sept 1, 2014 12:10:59 GMT -5
Unless the entire Enterprise run was in the holodeck, which would be great, we have to go with what we saw, which doesn't indicate anything else.
I think that would have been a great twist given how poorly the show was done.
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Post by StarFuryG7 on Mar 31, 2015 18:34:43 GMT -5
Yes, I pretty much know what to expect in terms of reactions here, but figured I'd post it anyway in case something has something in particular that they want to say about it, and that perhaps they haven't already said previously at some point.
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Post by TrekBeatTK on Apr 1, 2015 7:18:48 GMT -5
Yes, I pretty much know what to expect in terms of reactions here, but figured I'd post it anyway in case something has something in particular that they want to say about it, and that perhaps they haven't already said previously at some point. Were they ever actually considering making Malcolm gay? Wouldn't this have fallen into the stereotype of the gay Englishman? You know what I mean, he's prissy and has a British accent so clearly he's gay? Glad they didn't do that. ENT had many problems, but that wasn't one of them. Some of ENT does play better when you can watch a lot at once (plowing through season 3 is really good because even when there's a junk episode, there's a good one right after). Despite that, I'm not totally on the "ENT failed because people weren't streaming TV back then" argument. People weren't streaming LOST or BSG and those didn't fail. I'm sure DVD sales helped those though. Did ENT release DVDs during its run? I don't remember. If not, that's Paramount's fault. And yes, ten years is enough time for newbies and kids to find the series. A shame more didn't find it when it was on the air. It also seems like series that appeals to the JJTrek crowd, so I can see why it's getting more of a look now, plus the fact it looks less "dated" than other series to the Millennials. Besides that, I think it's just a wave we're seeing where folks who really liked it then spread the word to new fans. There's some nostalgia mingled with new viewership, as seems to have happened with Voyager a few years ago too. For some, ENT is the first series they watch, and they hold it higher for that reason. I think it's a mistake to watch it first, as it's arguably a distorted timeline, but it's curious to se people responding to the series purely on its own terms without other Trek baggage. |
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Post by StarFuryG7 on Apr 1, 2015 12:45:35 GMT -5
Were they ever actually considering making Malcolm gay? Wouldn't this have fallen into the stereotype of the gay Englishman? You know what I mean, he's prissy and has a British accent so clearly he's gay? Glad they didn't do that. ENT had many problems, but that wasn't one of them. Do you remember a girl on the AOL boards who went by the Screen Name Lori Quest? She would disappear for months at a time and would then all of a sudden resurface, and I remember her doing that after a particularly whiny Reed episode, saying she was so glad to see that they decided to add the first gay character to Trek finally. She was being strictly sarcastic, but it was still funny as hell at the time. And yes, ten years is enough time for newbies and kids to find the series. A shame more didn't find it when it was on the air. It also seems like series that appeals to the JJTrek crowd, so I can see why it's getting more of a look now, plus the fact it looks less "dated" than other series to the Millennials. Well, you may or may not recall that I had said on a number of occasions over the last several years over in the Trek Reddit sub that I viewed "Enterprise" as more conveniently fitting into the Abramsverse, supported also by the reference to Archer's "prized beagle" in the first film, and what Scotty ended up doing to the poor little dog accidentally, which was what got him stationed on an ice world out on the ass end of nowhere. So I think this is also why people that like the last two Abrams movies would more easily gravitate to "Enterprise", because of all the Trek shows, that one most easily fits next to the last two feature films. The writing in "Enterprise" was also often vacuous, with action being used to supplement that shortcoming usually, just like in the Abrams movies, so it's more of a natural fit. |
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Post by captainbasil on Apr 3, 2015 5:25:32 GMT -5
I wish they would stop polishing the turd. Enterprise was a mess. It had its moments,I liked some of the actors too. But for the most part it just did not work. I loved Porthos the Beagle. I think they should have let him write some of the episodes.  |
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Post by CRAMBAM on Apr 27, 2015 21:43:37 GMT -5
Enterprise was terrible. And I don't think it could work with Abrams Trek at all. Let's not forget the mirror universe episode. I think it should just be its own universe.
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Post by StarFuryG7 on May 15, 2015 0:04:15 GMT -5
Has it really been ten freakin' years since this show ended? WTF??? |
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Post by TrekBeatTK on May 15, 2015 13:23:40 GMT -5
Has it really been ten freakin' years since this show ended? WTF??? I know, where did the time go? I'd agree with a lot of the choices here (though lumping the entire Xindi arc together is a cheat). But surprised to see "Vanishing Point" in there. That's the only episode I never saw first run. I wasn't home, and for some reason my VCR didn't tape that night. Had to catch the Sci-Fi rerun. It's okay, but I wouldn't single it out. As far as season 2 goes, I'd say "The Catwalk" is stronger. -TK |
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Post by CRAMBAM on May 18, 2015 18:36:38 GMT -5
For me, the best episodes came in the last season. Had that writing team been in there from the creation stage, the show is much better.
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