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Post by CRAMBAM on Apr 9, 2009 6:19:09 GMT -5
I guess this thread will be obsolete in a few weeks, but given the needs of some to have spoilers, why not? No spoiler space required here, since well, that's the title of the thread.
I have not read this email that I got, but it's supposed to basically be a complete spoiler filled breakdown of the movie. Since I haven't read it, it could say things like "Scotty makes fart noises with his armpit while Kirk claps with glee."
I really don't know. This is a pure blind cut/paste, and I doubt I'll be visiting this thread again for a long time. Try to keep the other thread spoiler free, only talking about general theories and minor specifics.
Anyway--here goes:
from the scifi-meshes forums:
My review of STAR TREK [100% SPOILERS]
I've decided to break this down into a few segments to make it easier for you
SPOILERS AHEAD!
also, excuse my spelling mistakes as i'm trying to get everything from my head into the web as quickly as possible before i forget it all.
I got to sit about 10m from JJ and directly in front of the cast. It was pretty wicked.
Initial Thoughts:
Hmmm.... First off, I have to admit that every time i've walked out of a movie I have never been totally impressed. I think it may be due to all the excitement.
I hated Transformers and Wrath of Kahn, but over time they grew on me. Now I love TWOK and am OK with Transformers. I think it just took time on me. So understand that my initial reactions may be premature.
My first thoughts on the film is that it's OK. If you are a trekie and you want to see star trek, then see it. However I was expecting more. If I was going to rate it compared to the other films, i'd put it above The Voyage Home but below TWOK/FC. It is most akin to "The Undiscovered Country" in that it's fast paced but not too serious.
If you were to ask me if I was happy with it, i'd say "No"
but when I think about it, i guess i'd have to say "Yes"
THE STORY (in brief detail, I do miss some plot points):
The basic breakdown is this.
Nero's ship appears in front of the Kelvin from a singularity. It attacks the Kelvin, but Kirks dad takes command and saves the fleeing crew, including the unborn James T Kirk.
Cut to the future. Kirk gets in a fight. He gets told to join starfleet by Pike. Three years later (again... another jump in the future) the Narada picks up Old Spock who also appears out of a singularity
Kirk has now finished 3 years of training. He beats the Kobiyashi Maru when suddenly Vulcan is under attack. A fleet is assembled and they all go to Vulcan and get killed, except for the Enterprise.
Pike is captured, Spock takes command and the Enterprise flees at low warp. Vulcan is destroyed by a black hole weapon. Kirk gets angry and fights Spock as Kirk wants to fight Nero. Spock abandons him on a Vulcan moon.
On the moon, kirk meets old spock (who tells him the future... yada yada yada) and they also meet scotty. They beam back onto the Enterprise and kirk forces spock out of the command.
So kirks in command, the Narada is at earth and it is trying to blow it up using the black hole weapon. Young spock blows up the weapon while kirk fights nero.
<insert self sacrificing collision course story - but saved in the last minute by the Enterprise>
Everyone cheers and the Enterprise goes to warp with the overtune of "Space the Final Frontier"
WHAT I THOUGHT ABOUT IT
It's like Transformers, just in the Star Trek universe.
It's fast, too fast. They rush into the story, don't lay any foundations (for the average viewer) and most of the movie is about meeting the characters.
You barely see Nero before he is killed.
The movie is action packed. Lots of fast paced fights, lots of CG and, well, just watch Transformers and you'll know what i mean.
WHAT I LIKED ABOUT IT
The references to Trek. If you are a trekkie, you will LOVE the references. Lots of stuff like "i'm a doctor, not a physicist" and all that kind of stuff. That was great.
The music was ok, but the sound effects were awesome. Going to Warp was AMAZING!
The graphics were also pretty good - you get the feel from the trailers.
The movie is also a bit more 'real' in the sense that they have NOKIA phones, Engineering looks like a factory (like in TOS) with pipes and nuts and bolts, and the ENTERPRISE looks very cool, especially when it warps into Titan and emerges from the atmosphere.
WHAT I DIDN'T LIKE
It was too fast. There was too much focus on action and not enough on the story. Like the latest Indiana Jones, most of the movie was spent doing stuff that didn't matter, like HOW Kirk met Scotty.
Also, you barely see the Enterprise. There is barely a space battle.
NOTES FOR FANS:
- The enterprise fires phasers and torpedoes (which are blue), the first time the 1701 has done so in a movie since Star Trek 2
OTHER BAD STUFF
The Federation know who the Romulus are before Nero appears in front of the Kelvin! This is ****. They arn't supposed to know for a few more years. Yet spock already knows that Vulcans and Romulans are the same species.
Physics goes out the window. True trekies will be pissed off about the Black Hole weapon as it destroys Vulcan but none of the other planets are affected. A convenient super weapon... pft.
There is also a **** ending with the Enterprise ejecting the cores (yes, it has about 5 mini-cores) to escape from the black hole - ala Insurrection.
FINAL THOUGHTS
I was left wanting more. Not more of what I was given, but more from the movie itself. It didn't offer a STAR TREK experiences, instead just a group of people that just happened to be called Kirk and Spock
The story is utter crap and the movie is only saved by the premise of the film itself, that it is a re-boot.
JJ will have to have a much more developed, interesting storyline if he is going to keep the attention of the traditional fan-base, because "STAR TREK" is not aimed at us.
5.5/10
but hell yes, i'd see it again!
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Post by Wahrheit on Apr 9, 2009 7:44:24 GMT -5
hmmmm.....
I read the entire spoiler, and somehow I am not surprised.
Basically, this looks like it will be a great action movie. As suspected, I'll wait for the dvd release.....
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Post by CaptApril on Apr 10, 2009 1:03:13 GMT -5
Did anyone catch the bit about Vulcan being destroyed?
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Post by Wahrheit on Apr 10, 2009 7:15:17 GMT -5
Did anyone catch the bit about Vulcan being destroyed? yes, it is pathetic, but evidently this isn't really Star Trek, so I wouldn't be surprised if they encountered Chewbacca, at this point.... |
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Post by mxxpwr on Apr 10, 2009 11:36:07 GMT -5
I'm reminded of a Robot Chicken skit about a new Michael Bay movie.
Michael Bay presents: Explosions!
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Enc
New Member
Posts: 2
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Post by Enc on Apr 11, 2009 15:29:42 GMT -5
The use of the term cores bothers me a bit.
What kind of "core" are these exactly.
IIRC DS9 (I only saw it once so I could be wrong and my thoughts on the issue could have been prejudiced) had a forgoten line that gave us an invention date for the 'warp core'. The modern 'warp core', ie that vertical shaft seen in TNG et al. A date that was post TOS movie era. At the time I translated this to be a collection of the engineering components in a new single ellement and made for access and easy ejection. Unlike Scotty crawling around in pods that can be dangerous. Thats why i didn like Rikers line in TUC 'lets bring the warp core on line'. Forceing me to translate his use of the term warp core to be a generic term given all thos sepaerat parts and not the linear shaft (to say nothing about needing 30 min to warm up the engines (post Cage new engine time barrier ref), what'd the do warm em up on the ground),(not saying I didnt like TUC, I did).
So this core, mini-core ejection has me a bit worried.
Side note.
It sounds familiar. let me check on something. yes there it is. The Enterprise CV-65 listed on wikipedia says the carrier has 8 reactors. so there you have it citizens. This could be a ref to the real world carrier (ok fine a pic was in Archer eady room).
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Post by CaptApril on Apr 12, 2009 19:55:56 GMT -5
I just take it as additional evidence that JJ and his merry band don't have a fucking clue what they're doing.
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Post by mxxpwr on Apr 13, 2009 12:56:28 GMT -5
The use of the term cores bothers me a bit. What kind of "core" are these exactly. IIRC DS9 (I only saw it once so I could be wrong and my thoughts on the issue could have been prejudiced) had a forgoten line that gave us an invention date for the 'warp core'. The modern 'warp core', ie that vertical shaft seen in TNG et al. A date that was post TOS movie era. At the time I translated this to be a collection of the engineering components in a new single ellement and made for access and easy ejection. Unlike Scotty crawling around in pods that can be dangerous. Thats why i didn like Rikers line in TUC 'lets bring the warp core on line'. Forceing me to translate his use of the term warp core to be a generic term given all thos sepaerat parts and not the linear shaft (to say nothing about needing 30 min to warm up the engines (post Cage new engine time barrier ref), what'd the do warm em up on the ground),(not saying I didnt like TUC, I did). So this core, mini-core ejection has me a bit worried... Even there, I thought even a core 'ejection' was new, new. As in, E couldn't, but Voyager could, and then F could. |
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Post by MicahBee on Apr 13, 2009 13:07:22 GMT -5
Did the email have those asterisks, or is this ProBoards' way of censoring words it doesn't like? Can we get rid of that? We aren't children after all (cronologically, anyway).  |
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Post by CRAMBAM on May 9, 2009 15:55:32 GMT -5
I don't think Proboards censored anything.
This is now my first time reading the thread, and I can say that everything is accurate in that original email.
I'll probably do a full fledged spoiler ridden review, but for now I will say this:
Canon is 100 percent destroyed.
This is NOT an alternate universe, and there is now only one being that has any knowledge or memory of the Trek we all knew--Spock Prime.
Well, it certainly accomplishes the task of changing Generations.
It's at least possible Kirk doesn't die that way.
I'm trying to come up with a list of things that are now impossible. The destruction of Vulcan changes a lot. Even with New Vulcan existing, that would still mean things changed.
1. Amok Time--if it exists, happens on New Vulcan.
2. Journey to Babel--impossible now.
3. Search For Spock--can't happen the same way, unless it happens on New Vulcan.
4. Voyage Home--same deal, except of course you can't have the opening scenes on Vulcan.
5. Goodbye Tuvok. Goodbye Voyager.
6. Unification--can't be done the same.
7. Seems that The Menagerie is toast. If Pike never commanded the ship for more than the 5 minutes he had it, then he never would have dealt with the events of The Cage, and wouldn't have a place to go after his accident.
Um...where's Kirk's older brother?
In the new timeline, Kirk actually knows how to drive a stick shift.
Overall, at least with Kirk, they didn't do anything major out of character that couldn't be explained away by the timeline changes. Kirk's motivation and obsession with command doesn't develop the same, but in the end, he still shows that extraordinary ability that made Kirk Kirk.
I like Kirk Prime better.
But at least, this Kirk is Kirk.
I have other issues with the movie and other praises, but I'll see the reaction first.
One more thing--they never mention Generations at all. That means it is still possible to canonize Shatner's books. I guess it doesn't matter that much, given that nothing in Trek canon exists anymore, and Orci's comment about the original timeline still existing has no backup in the film.
Overall, I agree with the preliminary thoughts--it ranks right about even with TUC for me. Lower than ST2-3-4, but above all the TNG films, Trek 5, and TUC.
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Post by Wahrheit on May 9, 2009 19:05:38 GMT -5
I don't think Proboards censored anything. I think Micah was referring to the (mild) four letter obscenity that was replaced by asterisks Canon is 100 percent destroyed. Now that is a MAJOR turn off for me… Well, well ....all is not lost, after all. ;-) it ranks right about even with TUC for me. Lower than ST2-3-4, but above all the TNG films, Trek 5, and TUC. I’m confused. Is it “even” with TUC, or “above” it? Anyway, I trust your opinion on this film over most people, but I’ll wait to read/hear more reviews. I still tend to doubt I’ll see it before it’s DVD release. |
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Post by CRAMBAM on May 9, 2009 22:42:36 GMT -5
You know, if you wait for the DVD, odds are you'll be paying MORE money for the movie than seeing it in the theater.
I have some more random thoughts on the subject.
For example...
It is now possible that the events of Generations actually happen in the NEW timeline--the Pine Kirk timeline.
If that's true, then it could explain several things...
1. Scotty's line in Relics would be in the original timeline. Contradiction resolved.
2. Tuvok's existence could fit into the new timeline, where he serves on Excelsior, and Valtane dies.
3. Our following of the original timeline actually ends with All Good Things... Therefore, the Enterprise D CAN exist 25 years after that episode AND Data can still be alive.
With a second, separate timeline, there are possibilities.
I would put this movie very much on par with ST6. Both movies even have spectacular final scenes and good openings.
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Post by Wahrheit on May 10, 2009 13:32:31 GMT -5
You know, if you wait for the DVD, odds are you'll be paying MORE money for the movie than seeing it in the theater. Not really. By the time I rent it, and make my own "fair use" copy, to view whenever I want, I'll wind up shelling out just under $5 bucks. |
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Post by Wahrheit on May 10, 2009 13:49:51 GMT -5
I have some more random thoughts on the subject. For example... It is now possible that the events of Generations actually happen in the NEW timeline--the Pine Kirk timeline. If that's true, then it could explain several things... 1. Scotty's line in Relics would be in the original timeline. Contradiction resolved. 2. Tuvok's existence could fit into the new timeline, where he serves on Excelsior, and Valtane dies. 3. Our following of the original timeline actually ends with All Good Things... Therefore, the Enterprise D CAN exist 25 years after that episode AND Data can still be alive. With a second, separate timeline, there are possibilities. I would put this movie very much on par with ST6. Both movies even have spectacular final scenes and good openings. Instead of messing with something that was GREAT, such as the original Kirk, Spock, McCoy, I wish these idiots could have taken something HORRIBLE, like Enterprise and re-do it to make IT great. With new actors, and a strong adherence to canon (unlike the ridiculous tv show) they could have made a great movie with a good story and state of the art special effects. Or how about Captain April's adventures? |
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Post by CRAMBAM on May 10, 2009 21:40:45 GMT -5
The prequel alway should have been about Captain April's adventures, which either existed on another ship, or he died on the Kelvin.
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Post by MicahBee on May 10, 2009 23:40:37 GMT -5
Here are my thoughts:
I don’t know that I like the whole timeline change thing. On the one hand, it gives them a canonical excuse to ignore “Balance of Terror” regarding Romulans (something Enterprise did, but without an excuse). But doing so changes all of future history. This timeline is different. So in essence it wipes the slate of all Star Trek that has ever gone before that now exists solely in the mind of Spock Prime (Nimoy). Some will argue that it’s an alternate timeline/alternate universe. But the film I saw clearly does not support this hypothesis. The film I saw gives a CHANGED timeline. Similar to Yesterday’s Enterprise, only things don’t get set right at the end. Or Year of Hell from Voyager. I can see Spock Prime getting involved in temporal incursions to prevent his homeworld’s destruction like the Krenim did. I know one of the writers wants us to believe that this is an alternate universe like in Parallels (TNG), but IMHO, he clearly misunderstands that episode. I’m conflicted about the whole thing. The destruction of Vulcan seemed, to say the least, unnecessary; and in fact completely destroys everything we about Trek. Goodbye Amok Time. Goodbye Journey to Babel. Goodbye Sarek (TNG). Goodbye Gambit I and II (since the Stone of Gol was likely destroyed, no reason for space pirates to try to steal the thing). Goodbye VGR — after all, the odds favor Tuvok's ancestors being on-planet when Vulcan went kerflooey, and without Tuvok, there's no show.
I'm strongly reminded of how I felt when I saw Daniel Craig as Bond in the Casino Royale reboot — namely that as a Bond film, it was really quite excellent. But as a “Bond's first adventure” rebooting of the franchise, it didn't quite work. I have a similar reaction to this film, namely that as a Star Trek movie, it's absolutely wonderful. But as far as how it ties into the rest of the franchise, I'm more than just a little uncomfortable. In many ways, I feel more strongly about the implications of how this film fits into the rest of the Trek franchise, since there isn't really anything logical about James Bond -- the man's a timeless hero, who's able to fit into the Cold War and into the post-CW frame of mind equally well. With Trek, we know (or used to know) how each show and movie fits into the Trekverse. No more.
While there was an interesting artistic parallel between the shuttle shooting out of the Kelvin's shuttlebay and Kirk being born, I really didn't like that bit at all. It made no sense that George Kirk was able to bring his wife along. TNG made it quite clear that families aboard a starship were a new thing. TOS didn't have 'em. Yeah, ENT had families on some vessels, but those ships were long-range cargo vessels, so it made sense. Why would George Kirk be permitted to have his (very pregnant) wife aboard ship, yet crew with families aboard were unheard of on TOS-era starships?
I liked the scenes with young Spock on Vulcan. So much of that was just as it should be. How Spock was ostracized for having human blood, and being stoically taunted into emoting. I also appreciated Sarek’s reference to marrying Amanda as “the logical thing to do”, recalling Journey to Babel (which apparently never happens now!). Loved the green blood on young Spock's fat lip. And the greenish bruises on his cheek. One thing — while I wasn't that upset about it, the fact that the CGI folks got the color of the Vulcan sky wrong made me sit up and take notice. I'm curious — did we like how ShiKar (I'm assuming the city we saw was Spock's hometown) was depicted in the movie as compared to the treatment of the city in the remastered version of Amok Time and TAS's Yesteryear? Good? Bad? Personally, I thought it was too high-tech, given how we've seen Vulcan homes on Trek eps before, but that's just my opinion.
I thought Chris Pine did a really good job of boiling down the essence of Kirk, though a little more reckless than he grew to be. The bit where he chats up Uhura in the bar was fun, and I love the whole running gag of trying to learn her first name (something which only die-hard fans would know anyway). As I’ve said before, I do not have a problem with the acting or the cast. The actors did everything exactly right, given the script they were handed. None of the characters were consciously imitating the Old Cast, but they made their respective characters their own, with a few nods to the original stars, which is exactly the right way to do it.
The Orion girl gag was funny for like a second before I realized it made no sense at all. I like Kirk as a ladies’ man, and getting found out by half-naked Uhura was fun. But why would an Orion girl be in Starfleet? Aren’t so many of them slave girls? And aren’t the Orions pirates? Who lets a pirate into Starfleet Academy? I would have preferred the girl be that “blonde lab technician” that we all assume to be Carol Marcus mentioned in “Where No Man Has Gone Before”. A female Orion cadet didn’t really work for me, in retrospect. If the Orion chick was someone Kirk snuck into his dorm room for fun and games (and that's exactly something we'd expect a young Cadet Kirk to do!), it might have worked better.
Despite the many changes , I am relieved that we didn’t get a movie like Harve Bennet proposed with Kirk and Spock at the Academy together. This story was at least more correct in that regard. Going in I think many of us were afraid we’d get Kirk and Spock as classmates, which never would have happened. Still, I have to admit I never considered Spock that much older than Kirk — maybe a year or two older, at most — but here we see Spock old enough to have graduated Starfleet Academy long enough before Kirk even entered the Academy, to ensure that Spock was one of his instructors, and not merely an upperclassman he might have run into as a plebe.
I loved the Kobayashi Maru sequence. For me, it’s the highlight of the movie, and probably the best part. I wouldn’t even mind taking it out of context and watching it just before Wrath of Khan. Kirk’s little “I have to study” to Spock was a nice touch. After all, what’s there to study for? It’s a no-win scenario! But Kirk is probably studying how to reprogram it. Cool to think that this simulator room will eventually be remodeled to look like the Enterprise bridge. I also really like the wrinkle of it being Spock who programmed the simulation. That adds depth to the conversation at the start of TWOK: “As I recall, you took the test three times yourself. Your final solution was, shall we say, unique.” Still, I thought Kirk played it a little too nonchalant, just sitting back and munching on that apple, having everything finally go the way he'd wants it to. At the very least, couldn't he have PRETENDED he didn't know the Kobayashi Maru test had been futzed with?
I like the somewhat more realistic slant on the old “only ship in the quadrant” excuse. This time their fleet is elsewhere, so they send cadets to man more ships and go. I appreciate the reference to the USS Hood. I have to see it again, but I don’t remember quite what the crisis is here. They send a fleet out to investigate what? Storms? Because they didn’t know it was Romulans at the time, right? ... so what’s the big emergency? I don't know, maybe it's a nod to TMP/TWOK? “There's a weird cloud out there... we're not sure what it is. Oh, look... there's no starships closer than the Enterprise. Okay, we'll send her out there, even though all we have to crew her are a bunch of untested cadets.” Which would piss me off, but it's not the first time they've pulled that kind of stretch of logic, so I guess they get a pass. A marginal pass, to be sure.
Towards the end, I was sort of hoping for a Federation timeship to come zooming in, a nameless captain saying, “My God, what the fuck happened here?” and emitted some kind of beam or ray or whatever to put things right. In any case, the Office of Temporal Investigations are going to have a serious headache. I'm picturing Dulmur having a nervous breakdown. Then again, I guess it's good that the Magic Reset Button wasn't hit like at the end of that abortion known as “Year of Hell.”
I'm going to have to see it again, to see if these conflicting feelings can be resolved.
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Post by CRAMBAM on May 11, 2009 9:36:32 GMT -5
As far as I know, James Bond wasn't one big canon during all that time.
Star Trek was.
And I agree wholeheartedly that the original timeline is gone.
The Kelvin wasn't a Constitution Class ship, so it MAY have been a type of ship that may have allowed families. Or maybe Winona was on there just for a visit. She wasn't IN Starfleet. Hell, they may have had her on the ship for the sole purpose of her being ready to give birth and it just turned out disasterous.
One thing that was very out of character was Spock Prime doing nothing to make the timeline right. Once he was freed, he should have been on the first ship to slingshot his ass back 25 years to Nero in the beginning.
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Post by MicahBee on May 11, 2009 10:03:15 GMT -5
All quotes are by CRAM:
Ah, but there were references to previous films (at least, prior to the Daniel Craig reboot, at least) -- Bond being married and his wife having been killed by Blofeld, as an example.
I'll concede it's possible that Starfleet would let an officer's wife aboard for a short visit, since we HAVE seen married civilians aboard Enterprise. But I have a problem with the idea of her showing up to visit just to give birth. A pregnant woman wouldn't just show up on a present-day aircraft carrier just so her husband could be there to hold her hand, after all.
But didn't the Nero thing that started this whole mess happen in the present (Alt-Kirk's future)? So wouldn't he be slingshotting his ass FORWARD?
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Post by CRAMBAM on May 11, 2009 10:17:07 GMT -5
Today that's true, but the Roddenberry future may allow for that. It's not entirely out of the realm of possibility.
Talk about a Doc Brown moment. You're not thinking 4th dimensionally. From the point Nero attacked the Kelvin, history changed. The timeline that led Spock to Romulus in the first place was gone. Further damage happened 25 years later when he attacked Vulcan. The events from that point on were completely different and altered, so if Spock Prime slingshotted himself forward, Vulcan still would have been destroyed, and the original timeline would still be long gone.
Spock would have to prevent Nero's tampering FIRST, and THEN slingshot forward.
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Post by mxxpwr on May 11, 2009 16:49:10 GMT -5
...Um...where's Kirk's older brother?.. Well, when young Kirk stole the car he waved and passed a '...Georgie!..' this might have been George Jr. Abrams and CO. probably didn't know Jim called him 'Sam.' |
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Post by CRAMBAM on May 11, 2009 17:59:33 GMT -5
Did he say Georgie? I thought he said something else.
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Post by MicahBee on May 11, 2009 21:10:54 GMT -5
Talk about a Doc Brown moment. You're not thinking 4th dimensionally. From the point Nero attacked the Kelvin, history changed. The timeline that led Spock to Romulus in the first place was gone. Further damage happened 25 years later when he attacked Vulcan. The events from that point on were completely different and altered, so if Spock Prime slingshotted himself forward, Vulcan still would have been destroyed, and the original timeline would still be long gone. Spock would have to prevent Nero's tampering FIRST, and THEN slingshot forward. Fair point. I guess the real problem is we're unaware of the circumstances surrounding the time-jump from the primary timeline to the past one. We just don't know why Spock didn't intervene when the time-travel initially occurred, much less when Kirk's father's ship ran into Nero. |
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Post by CRAMBAM on May 11, 2009 21:15:16 GMT -5
We sort of do. Nero's motivations were stupid. He was in the past. Just red matter that star on Romulus and he's done.
I may be wrong here, but isn't it possible that Nero arrived well before the whole Kelvin thing? I think we started the movie mid battle, not at the moment Nero arrived.
Nero captured Spock the very second he arrived in the past, so Spock wouldn't have had the time.
But what WOULD have made sense would have been for Spock Prime to make a case to Kirk that he needed his help and that by fixing the timeline, all would be normal again. Every single TOS character would have easily helped.
That's their nature.
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Post by mxxpwr on May 12, 2009 12:21:51 GMT -5
... I may be wrong here, but isn't it possible that Nero arrived well before the whole Kelvin thing? I think we started the movie mid battle, not at the moment Nero arrived... I don't think so. If I remember the sequence of events right: The Kelvin was investigating a lightning storm in space. Bam! Black hole. Bam! Nero. So, Nero arrived right in front of the Kelvin. That's why they needed to interrogate someone. They had no idea where/when they were. Without a doubt. |
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Post by mxxpwr on May 12, 2009 12:23:18 GMT -5
Did he say Georgie? I thought he said something else. I thought I heard Georgie, but we'll need someone else to confirm it. |
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Post by StarFuryG7 on May 14, 2009 1:59:00 GMT -5
Here are my thoughts: I don’t know that I like the whole timeline change thing. On the one hand, it gives them a canonical excuse to ignore “Balance of Terror” regarding Romulans (something Enterprise did, but without an excuse). But doing so changes all of future history. This timeline is different. So in essence it wipes the slate of all Star Trek that has ever gone before that now exists solely in the mind of Spock Prime (Nimoy). Some will argue that it’s an alternate timeline/alternate universe. But the film I saw clearly does not support this hypothesis. The film I saw gives a CHANGED timeline. Similar to Yesterday’s Enterprise, only things don’t get set right at the end. Or Year of Hell from Voyager. I can see Spock Prime getting involved in temporal incursions to prevent his homeworld’s destruction like the Krenim did. I know one of the writers wants us to believe that this is an alternate universe like in Parallels (TNG), but IMHO, he clearly misunderstands that episode. I’m conflicted about the whole thing. The destruction of Vulcan seemed, to say the least, unnecessary; and in fact completely destroys everything we about Trek. Goodbye Amok Time. Goodbye Journey to Babel. Goodbye Sarek (TNG). Goodbye Gambit I and II (since the Stone of Gol was likely destroyed, no reason for space pirates to try to steal the thing). Goodbye VGR — after all, the odds favor Tuvok's ancestors being on-planet when Vulcan went kerflooey, and without Tuvok, there's no show.
Did you post this on the R&S board as well? If so I didn't see it, and just in case you're wondering, I didn't read what you had to say here until just now.I thought Chris Pine did a really good job of boiling down the essence of Kirk, though a little more reckless than he grew to be. The bit where he chats up Uhura in the bar was fun, and I love the whole running gag of trying to learn her first name (something which only die-hard fans would know anyway). As I’ve said before, I do not have a problem with the acting or the cast. The actors did everything exactly right, given the script they were handed. None of the characters were consciously imitating the Old Cast, but they made their respective characters their own, with a few nods to the original stars, which is exactly the right way to do it.. I would have preferred the girl be that “blonde lab technician” that we all assume to be Carol Marcus mentioned in “Where No Man Has Gone Before”. I loved the Kobayashi Maru sequence. For me, it’s the highlight of the movie, and probably the best part. I wouldn’t even mind taking it out of context and watching it just before Wrath of Khan. Towards the end, I was sort of hoping for a Federation timeship to come zooming in, a nameless captain saying, “My God, what the fuck happened here?” and emitted some kind of beam or ray or whatever to put things right. In any case, the Office of Temporal Investigations are going to have a serious headache. I'm picturing Dulmur having a nervous breakdown. Then again, I guess it's good that the Magic Reset Button wasn't hit like at the end of that abortion known as “Year of Hell.” I'm going to have to see it again, to see if these conflicting feelings can be resolved. |
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Post by CRAMBAM on May 14, 2009 6:11:27 GMT -5
I doubt I'll see it again in the theater. It's not warranted. Maybe I'll get the DVD. I'm sticking with my 2 1/2 star rating.
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Post by Wahrheit on May 14, 2009 7:21:38 GMT -5
I doubt I'll see it again in the theater. It's not warranted. Maybe I'll get the DVD. I'm sticking with my 2 1/2 star rating. I still feel good about having NOT seen the film yet, although maybe a dvd viewing will be appropriate for a boring winter night. ;D ;D ;D |
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