Celebrity Death Match 1- Defiant vs Voyager

[darthtimon]

So, as I said in my 'Hello' thread, I like versus debates. Usually I like debates like 'Empire from Star Wars vs Federation from Star Trek', and the like, but I'm preparing some 'Death Match' vs stuff for my website, and I thought I would share my opening match right here.

So, the combatants:

The USS Defiant, made famous on Deep Space Nine, commanded by Captain Sisko, vs the USS Voyager, as seen on the show of the same name, commanded by Captain Janeway.

In theory, this is a no-brainer to me. One ship was made for war, and her commander lead entire fleets into battle. The other ship was made for exploration, and I am firmly of the opinion that Janeway is an inferior leader to Sisko.

So, to me, the Defiant easily defeats Voyager. The Defiant has more powerful pulse phasers, quantum torpedoes and ablative hull armour. She is more agile than Voyager, and should be able to run rings around her.

However, I am keen to see what others think.

[TrekBeatTK]

That is an interesting question. Certainly Sisko is a better military leader than Janeway. And the Defiant is a "tough little ship" designed to fight the Borg. ...BUT Voyager is also a full-sized starship and probably has a significant complement of weapons; something tells me she at least carries more torpedoes than the Defiant. If Janeway were smart, she'd send out crew in shuttlecraft as well to surround the Defiant and attack on all fronts. Put Tom in the Delta Flyer to try and outmaneuver Sisko, and run him into a trap where Voyager finishes him off.

Having said that, Janeway is probably not going to think that way. And she may have former Maquis with her which would help, but Sisko beat the Maquis. So while I think it's entirely possible for the Voyager to best the Defiant, under Janeway's leadership I don't think it happens. Of course, Seven of Nine would also be helpful here and since the Borg DID incapacitate the Defiant in First Contact she would have that tactical knowledge.

I think Sisko probably still wins, but I do think it might be closer than you think.

-TK

[StarFuryG7]

Scenarios like this generally only appeal to me if there's a likelihood that the two opposing forces would meet in such a scenario to wage war on each other, and in the case of the Defiant versus the Voyager, the two are very much on the same side obviously. Sure, there is a basis for war games, so in that sense I can see why people would enjoy such matchup scenarios, but in a war game, no one dies, so there's nothing to really lose, except perhaps some pride.

Having said that, I'll go along with it to a limited extent just for the heck of it, and I'm inclined to go along with TK on this right on up to the edge of his envisioned outcome, if the two combatants were in fact to be the respective commanders for each ship. I think there's no question that the Defiant is outmatched by the Voyager, which wasn't a bad looking ship, but which had a terrible Captain and a mostly mediocre-to-subpar crew in terms of their performance potential, Seven of Nine notwithstanding of course. Janeway is practically incompetent next to Sisko, even though the writers always had a way of making her looking bolder and taller in stature than she actually was. So the Captain of the Defiant would have to pull some pretty crafty tricks in order to cripple and take down the Voyager, and Seven of Nine in and of herself would probably make that happening highly unlikely, which is where I differ from TK on this.

But don't get me wrong --it's not as though I wouldn't like to see the Defiant blowing the Voyager straight to Hell if given the chance.

[darthtimon]

Ok, lets change the scenario slightly. It's a war game still, but this time with a goal- Voyager has to defend a transport carrying an important dignitary, and the Defiant has to capture it.

Basically, the two crews pretend the Defiant is a pirate ship in this scenario, and Voyager is escorting... lets say, an ambassador for crucial talks.

The Defiant would have an unfair advantage in that Voyager is pinned down to the unarmed transport, although Sisko and co can't really go attack the transport (not if they want to capture the ambasador), because the transport is quite fragile.

I'd still give this one to the Defiant. She decloaks and attacks suddenly, slamming a couple of quantum torpedoes into Voyager's main hull. By the time Voyager can get her shields up, she's therefore already taken serious damage, and her combat capabilities may well be impaired.

From there, the more agile Defiant hammers away until Voyager either surrenders or is crippled.

If the Defiant cannot get the drop on Voyager, I still envision a Defiant victory, as I feel the evidence points to the Defiant being more powerful. She has more powerful torpedoes, more powerful phasers, is more maneuverable, and should take this.

[TrekBeatTK]

Again, part of this depends on whether this Voyager is post-"Scorpion". A Voyager with Seven and Borg enhancements (and the Delta Flyer) is better than the original Voyager.

I had actually forgotten the Defiant had a cloak oddly enough. While that would certainly be helpful and it could inflict major damage, I remain unconvinced of its victory, at least the way you seem to see it. Remember that the Defiant was destroyed once; Voyager was only destroyed in alternate timelines. In a war game scenario, each ship would KNOW the capabilities of the other ship and would plan for them. The Defiant's best hopes would be a sneak attack, but since Voyager would know it was coming and that it has a cloak, you can bet they'd be working on ways to counter that. Janeway may not be a great strategist, but some of her crew are (is Seska still on board?).

The more I think about it, the more I think Voyager comes out on top, though I hate to say it.

-TK

[CRAMBAM]

Sometimes military ships do war games, which we have seen on Star Trek.

Ultimately, a ship is only as good as her crew, and especially the captain.

Captain Kirk could find a way to beat Janeway in a rowboat with a broken oar.

Janeway was a terrible captain, and there is simply no way she could beat Sisko in ship to ship combat.