The Shatner Novels

[TrekBeatTK]

As I think I mentioned some time ago I've been slowly working my way through a rewatch of all Trek series. As I'm nearing Generations, I thought it would be the opportune time to finally read some of the Shatner novels. I started "The Return" years ago but never finished. So I recently read "The Ashes of Eden".

On the whole, I thought it was pretty good. The story nicely veers away from where it seems to be going (and ultimately where Insurrection really would go). While sometimes the action scenes were boring to read, the character bits really worked well for me. I felt like for the most part we really got a sense of connecting the Kirk at the end of TUC to the Kirk at the beginning of Generations. There were moments that annoyed me. Like there's a chapter where he's making out with a woman and keeps flashing back to other TOS women he snogged. I felt that stuff was unnecessary, just thrown in to say to fans, "Hey, remember this episode?" But a lot of the dialogue felt exactly right. Only Chekov seemed a few times to read a bit out of character.

There were some nice moments, like when Sulu kicked the guy off the helm and took over. It was nice to have the Enterprise-A go out in a blaze of glory again (though that makes how many Enterprises that ultimately blow up?). You can definitely see where the Reeves-Stevenses helped out, but also can feel Shatner's take on the character. Moments early in the book feel like Shatner being autobiographical.

There are a few details that have been invalidated by later Trek (some references to Zefram Cochrane). The only inconsistency that really bothered me was that Kirk resigned in the book, but in Generations he's back in uniform. This point was never addressed.

Reading the book did get me thinking though that perhaps one way to get Trek back on TV would be as an animated series adapting Trek novels. Maybe serialize them over a week or a few episodes anyway. The serial format is working for Star Wars: The Clone Wars. It would be a nice way to make more Trek without having to come up with more stories. Adaptations could correct continuity where necessary. It would also be a way to perhaps canonize some of these story points, bringing back Kirk for those who so desire, or telling us about what happened to DS9 after the series ended. Maybe classify the series as sub-canon (like TAS is somewhat considered). Perhaps even do each Trek series on a different day of the week (Monday TOS, Tuesday TNG, etc.)

Anyway, I'll be getting to "The Return" once I've watched Generations.

-TK

[CRAMBAM]

I think it's possible that Kirk was not an active captain in Generations.

I've always been an advocate of canonizing these books. They paid more attention to continuity than the shows, and any subsequent changes were fairly minor.

These books actually cover a long period of Trek history, with the last one taking place after Nemesis.

[TrekBeatTK]

Jan 31, 2013 7:25:04 GMT -5 CRAMBAM said:

I think it's possible that Kirk was not an active captain in Generations.

At first blush it might seem so, but Harriman does call him Captain throughout. And while that might just be a sign of respect, and Kirk might just be wearing his old uniform, I have a hard time believing Harriman would give a civilian control of the bridge. Remember, he was going to go to deflector controls himself and leave Kirk in command. Kirk was supposed to be "retired" at this point, but what does that mean in relation to his Starfleet service?

Jan 31, 2013 7:25:04 GMT -5 CRAMBAM said:

I've always been an advocate of canonizing these books.

I know, and I thought that a series might be a fun way to do it. Like those anthology series like "Masters of Horror" or "Ray Bradbury Theater" crossed with TAS.

-TK

[darthtimon]

Without wanting to spoil the later novels, I found Shatner to be extremely self-indulgant with his books, especially the later ones. For me, this ruined them a little bit. He had some good stories and ideas, and some very nice touches here and there, but he went too far with some of them and made other characters look quite stupid.

[StarFuryG7]

Jan 31, 2013 9:11:01 GMT -5 darthtimon said:

Without wanting to spoil the later novels, I found Shatner to be extremely self-indulgant with his books, especially the later ones. For me, this ruined them a little bit. He had some good stories and ideas, and some very nice touches here and there, but he went too far with some of them and made other characters look quite stupid.

Uh Oh ...you just made CRAMBAM's Shit List.

I've never read any of the Shatner novels, mainly because they weren't canon, and because regardless of what took place in them, the film and television franchise weren't going to resurrect his character, which made it all seem rather pointless to me.

I have heard though that Riker in particular comes off looking pretty stupid in his books.

[CRAMBAM]

Riker comes off looking like a dick in THE RETURN. But after that, he was fine. Of course they were Kirk-centric. Kirk is who Shatner knows.

But Kirk is also the big hero of this franchise, and not all characters are created equal. The story is told from Kirk's point of view, so we get his thought processes.

He is also the greatest captain by far, so he would know a thing or two that the others wouldn't.

[Mel]

I gave The Return to myself for Christmas. Haven't started it yet. Been reading a lot of non-fiction.

[CRAMBAM]

Did you read Ashes?

The Return is technically part 2 of a 3 part story. But Ashes, part 1, is more background.

Think of it like ST2-3-4.

TWOK and TSFS were 2 parts of the same story. Technically, STIV was the third part of a trilogy, but it was connected yet disconnected to the prior 2 parts.

Ashes is kind of like the STIV of the first trilogy. It is tied into the latter 2 books, though about as important to the latter 2 as STIV is to TWOK and TSFS.

I guess it's more of a prequel because it introduces a key character to future Shatner novels.

[Mel]

Feb 6, 2013 7:22:10 GMT -5 CRAMBAM said:

Did you read Ashes? The Return is technically part 2 of a 3 part story. But Ashes, part 1, is more background.

Think of it like ST2-3-4. TWOK and TSFS were 2 parts of the same story. Technically, STIV was the third part of a trilogy, but it was connected yet disconnected to the prior 2 parts. Ashes is kind of like the STIV of the first trilogy. It is tied into the latter 2 books, though about as important to the latter 2 as STIV is to TWOK and TSFS. I guess it's more of a prequel because it introduces a key character to future Shatner novels.

No, I didn't read Ashes. I thought you had said The Return stands alone, and could be read that way, even though it's part of a trilogy. Did I misunderstand?

[CRAMBAM]

Not at all.

Think of Ashes as a prequel to Generations/sequel to Star Trek VI.

It takes place in that time period between the two movies.

Ashes/The Return/Avenger are a trilogy, but the latter 2 books are far enough removed that it works as a 2 parter as well.

Ashes is the story that basically gets Kirk onto the bridge of the Enterprise B.

A new character, a love interest for Kirk, is introduced in Ashes.

She's not in The Return at all, but is back in Avenger. Ashes is important because of her introduction, but I feel that you can pick up enough in Avenger to get that this is one of the women in Kirk's life without knowing how they met.

That said, Ashes is a nice story with the full original crew.

[TrekBeatTK]

Well, I finished The Return a week or so ago. Not a bad yarn. On the plus-side, it's not nearly as Kirk-centric as one would expect and plays very nicely in the Next Gen universe, with a little DS9 crossover. It's a little odd to follow them scattered in different places without an Enterprise (and the little gag at the end just to give them an Enterprise was unnecessary to me). Clearly the Reeves-Stevens had a major influence here, and they definitely tried to keep (and correct) canon.

I liked the treatment of the Borg a lot. This is the Borg of TNG before the Borg Queen was introduced, and mostly makes a lot of sense with established canon. I prefer a non-Queen collective, frankly. I like that it dealt with non-humanoid species being assimilated and what that might entail. Though I don't see the efficiency in having Borg Dobermans, even if it's a cool visual. And it tries to make something of that Roddenberry joke that the Borg are the ones who created V'Ger. Unfortunately, those connections don't entirely work for me, or weren't as well realized.

It's actually surprising that considering the hype at the time about Kirk coming back, he spends the majority of the book as a villain. We get Kirk vs. Picard moments that some always wanted. And for the most part I don't think Riker comes off too dickish. The book has none of Riker's humor, but does pretty well exemplify the "wonderful arrogance" of the character that the Traveler noted. There were only a couple of moments I felt it went too far, and done just for the sake of plot. Overall though you really can hear the voice of the characters, and Picard feels like Picard (except maybe about 3/4 in) much more than in the films.

The plot of the novel actually seems remarkably similar to Nemesis when you consider the Romulan plot in each.

My biggest complaint is with the ending, or lack thereof. Oh, boy it's all set-up for yet another book. And it looks like Kirk is dead again, even though we know he won't be. This unfortunately makes Kirk look invincible and immortal, which cheapens everything. That's one fake death on Ent-B, one death undone on Veridian III, and now yet another one. Enough already. I also felt that the Sarek stuff didn't feel like it belonged, but was just shoe-horned in to set up the next book.

Don't know when I'll get to Avenger, but it won't be for awhile yet. I liked a lot of things about this book, though with the state of canon now especially regarded the Borg since the First Contact ret-con, it's hard to view as canon in its present form. If ever there were an attempt to tell this story on film or TV the ending would have to be siginficantly reworked. Not a bad effort overall though.

-TK

[CRAMBAM]

Don't forget, Avenger is the conclusion of the story, and this was Shatner's idea for the 8th movie. He wanted Kirk to come back as a villain.

Avenger addresses your issue about death. It's there.

And the Sarek stuff is big in Avenger.

Let's not forget the last of these books take place after Nemesis, so they adapt to canon as well as possible. But yeah, an attempt to tell this story must be reworked because you can't end it on a cliffhanger.

[TrekBeatTK]

I finished Avenger last night. It's a decent book overall, but I found it a bit underwhelming compared to the previous two. I liked a lot of the set-up, and there were some great bits. They very nicely handled Spock's growing emotionality without telegraphing the ending. I liked the connection to Kodos and that stuff. And it was fun to see Stonn and T'Pring again. But I didn't need the undoing of the whole "Sarek" episode. I know there are people who hate what was done there, but I feel like the intent of the story was only cheapened by the retcon murder story in this novel. But worse than that really for me was the ending. Making Spock and Kirk kinda sorta brothers was a step too far for me. There were a few moments of Kirk vs. Picard again that weren't necessary. I liked them working together this time around.

There is good character stuff in there for Kirk, and some additional Borg retcons to now reconcile with First Contact that mostly work. The tale of how Kirk was freed of his nanites reminded me of the Voyager episode "Unity".

It was a little strange to have the TNG crew without Worf. I liked the idea that the reason the EMH has those "I'm a doctor..." lines is because of the McCoy personality bits in his program. But I could have done without the big McCoy moment at the end too. I guess you can't fault Shatner too much for giving the TOS big three their moments, but that was a bit hokey for me.

The one element about the end that I really disliked was the bit on Vulcan. No way is there some secret cave full of katras. First, it makes Vulcans sound like Soul Hunters out of Babylon 5. It also doesn't make any sense. How did Sarek's katra get there? And if katras just go there by themselves, why do Vulcans need to transfer them personally upon death? It didn't make any sense to me. And if Spock this whole time has regretted never melding with his father, why didn't he come here long ago. It's an idea that just doesn't work.

So a decent read, and though some of the characters are written better than in The Return and there are nice nods to characters and episodes prior, it feels like a weaker third entry.

-TK

[CRAMBAM]

Interestingly enough, for me, I agree that Avenger was not quite up to the first two books, but it accomplished its purpose, which was, at the end, to put our characters where they should be.

Had that been the last story, all would be well with them. It kind of restored the ST6 finale. Ultimately, if they had a movie that was based on The Return with Avenger's finale, Star Trek would have been far better off.

I had no problem with what they did with the Sarek episode, given the rareness of the disease that TNG established.

The Reeves Stevenses and Shatner were very creative at fixing Berman's mistakes.

I think Avenger actually came out BEFORE Unity.

[captainbasil]

These books interest me, too. I have never read a Shatner Trek novel. I read some of his Tek War books years ago. To be honest, I have not read a Trek novel in ages, but I do enjoy them. Is there one that's you can read as a Stand Alone story ?

[TrekBeatTK]

You can definitely read either The Ashes of Eden or The Return as stand-alone stories. Avenger sort of makes trilogy of them and ties them together.

I have yet to read any of the later ones.

-TK

[CRAMBAM]

The problem with The Return is that it ends on a cliffhanger.

That's why Avenger is so important--it ends the trilogy, though I would argue that The Return and Avenger are really a 2 part story, with Ashes only being important because it introduced a major new character to the universe that comes back in Avenger.

Ashes by itself is a standalone story, save for the final chapter that sets up The Return.