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Post by CRAMBAM on Dec 26, 2014 18:38:13 GMT -5
Well, the movie now has a new director, a release date, and it looks like they are jettisoning the script.
This could either be very good, or disastrous.
It all depends on Lin. Is he a Star Trek fan?
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Post by StarFuryG7 on Dec 27, 2014 19:32:32 GMT -5
Here's one of the latest articles about this. I apologize for not updating people here about this myself, but it was a bit of a crazy week with the holiday and all, even though I was keeping in touch over on Reddit. So as you can see, not only have they seriously curtailed Orci's involvement in the next movie, but he also acknowledges that the new timeline was his idea, while remaining supremely arrogant about it as usual no less. Which means it was also his idea not to be definitively clear about MWI actually being in play either in the last two films. Thoughts, comments, criticisms, etc.? |
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Post by CRAMBAM on Dec 29, 2014 9:28:40 GMT -5
You should go to the actual thread and read it. The original post that he was responding to--that set him off--wasn't that bad.
I don't know if this is a good thing or not. It's such a mystery. The problem is that I don't know anything about how Lin feels about Star Trek, and the only rumor going around is that Paramount wants it to be more like Guardians of the Galaxy.
Guardians was a really good movie. I liked it a lot--as its own franchise, but not as part of Star Trek.
Writers being arrogant is nothing new. Read a Ron D. Moore interview. He's still defiant.
Orci was the guy who knew the franchise best at Bad Robot, for better or worse.
So now what? Are we going to get big time screen time for Scotty's Ewok friend?
Are they going to cast The Rock in some sort of role?
From what it sounds like, they may take all the bad parts of STID, and make a whole movie on THAT.
My theory on the MWI is this--
They were trying to have their cake and eat it to, and figured the dumb fans would buy into it.
Here's how I look at it and always have--
They wanted to do something where they weren't burdened by continuity. Two ways to do that--either you wipe out the prime timeline, or you set it in a different universe.
But this is a no win scenario.
OPTION A:
If you wipe out the prime timeline, you are using the same characters, but wiping out all of their adventures, which would be sacrilege to the long time fans. That's bad press, and they are evil.
OPTION B:
You set the movies in a different universe. Your original universe is still alive and well, but these aren't the same people that we followed for all those years. Therefore, who cares about them?
They were trying to do both--somehow use the real characters, but preserve the original timeline.
Obviously, that's impossible.
So they wrote a movie where they wiped the prime timeline, and off camera, decided that MWI is the way to go.
My belief is that if they want to use MWI, that's fine, but if they do, then say so in canon. In the absence of a line of dialogue, and the vague writing in ST09 does not qualify, then what happens on screen holds, and the prime timeline has to be gone, based on how Star Trek treated time travel in every single instance before ST09.
Nero can change a lot, but he can't change Trek science.
I have no issue with Orci getting fired if the script ends up worthy of a 50th anniversary, but every instinct tells me that things just got really bad for the story.
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Post by captainbasil on Dec 30, 2014 7:50:08 GMT -5
Let's face it. These guys don't know what they want to do. It seems to me that they desperately want to appeal to younger viewers and casual fans, but they're upset about alienating long term fans. They want some sort of a Do Over without actually re-booting Trek again.
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Post by CRAMBAM on Dec 30, 2014 18:32:47 GMT -5
They should save that for the 4th movie or a tv series.
I think that given that this is the 50th, they need to do a story that involved the prime universe in some capacity. Maybe even restore it completely and end the MWI issue.
OR, include the MWI issue and show that the prime universe exists.
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Post by TrekBeatTK on Dec 31, 2014 9:15:38 GMT -5
From what little I read of Orci's original story ideas for the next movie, the plan was to address the destruction of Vulcan, and have it involve some sort of time travel to undo it. First of all, this should have been the follow-up to the first movie. And I don't disagree that addressing it is a good idea. But I also completely understand Paramount's reluctance to do YET ANOTHER time travel story in a Trek movie. It's just too much. They should have resolved that in the first movie. Instead, we're left where we are. Fact is, Orci wanted to do Khan from the very beginning. You can tell this from that one episode of Fringe where the entire plot of the new Trek was laid out, with the addition of Khan.
You can't do Trek as Guardians of the Galaxy (which wasn't even THAT good) because that movie succeeded in large part due to its humor. Trek has had a very hard time doing humor in its movies consistently (only The Voyage Home really works, with bits of Generations standing out). I mean, aside from the occasional jokes; I mean a consistent "light" tone. I don't want them to just rehash existing stories or characters though.
Bringing in Justin Lin also seems like the suits just want an action director. However, Lin is capable of juggling an ensemble while doing action, as he proved in his episodes of Community. But without a solid script, it doesn't matter.
I just wish Orci would stop being such a smug whiny baby and stop saying "this is why I write movies and you don't!" The movies you write are terrible, Bob. Just because they pay you for it doesn't mean you're so much better at story than anyone else. Go back and look at Transformers 2 before you settle into your high horse.
-TK
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Post by CRAMBAM on Dec 31, 2014 18:07:54 GMT -5
I read the same thing, and I think that would have been a terrific story. Arguably, who would be the villain?
If Spock Prime for example were involved, wouldn't we be rooting for him?
I don't give a damn if time travel is involved. Time travel was actually not really the story of ST09. It existed, but it wasn't the story.
Imagine an ending where Spock Prime stops Nero completely, and brings back the prime universe.
Who cares if it undoes the Abrams movies? They weren't that good anyway, and the rest of Star Trek trumps anything Abrams did.
It would complete the trilogy, and if they wanted to make more movies, just set them after Turnabout Intruder and before TMP.
Lots of room there, and the only thing that matters is the exterior of the ship.
Imagine movie #4, starting with the traditional bridge, and Kirk and crew are involved in a major battle that requires the bridge to be destroyed. A few months later, it's refit, you have your new set, and boom, continue.
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Post by StarFuryG7 on Jan 2, 2015 13:39:02 GMT -5
I don't give a damn if time travel is involved. Time travel was actually not really the story of ST09. It existed, but it wasn't the story. Imagine an ending where Spock Prime stops Nero completely, and brings back the prime universe. Who cares if it undoes the Abrams movies? They weren't that good anyway, and the rest of Star Trek trumps anything Abrams did. It would complete the trilogy, and if they wanted to make more movies, just set them after Turnabout Intruder and before TMP. Lots of room there, and the only thing that matters is the exterior of the ship. |
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Post by CRAMBAM on Jan 8, 2015 8:17:15 GMT -5
The characters haven't really been written appropriately either.
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Post by CRAMBAM on Jan 27, 2015 15:04:00 GMT -5
Looks like the Orci haters got their wish. Simon Pegg is now one of the writers.
At this point, my interest in the movie is nil, until I hear plot.
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Post by captainbasil on Jan 28, 2015 8:18:31 GMT -5
Ditto. I look at these movies like the Tom Cruise Mission Impossible flicks. They have nothing to do with the original show. It's just a brand name.
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Post by CRAMBAM on Feb 1, 2015 13:45:29 GMT -5
Star Trek: In Name Only.
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Post by captainbasil on Feb 4, 2015 7:57:37 GMT -5
Trek for me now is Fan productions. Star Trek Continues, Phase II, Star Trek Outpost are all giving me a better Trek Experience than Hollywood and I'm fine with that. Hollywood is going to follow the money whether I like it or not and I can accept that too.
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Post by Mel on Feb 8, 2015 22:38:08 GMT -5
Maybe Simon Pegg can help write an entertaining yet relevant script, like Star Trek: The Voyage Home. Maybe.
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Post by CRAMBAM on Feb 12, 2015 16:41:09 GMT -5
Maybe, but I don't have much faith in that. I'd like to hear Pegg comment about it.
Ultimately, it's the 50th, and if they don't do something to honor the whole franchise, it's a waste.
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Post by captainbasil on Feb 13, 2015 6:31:43 GMT -5
I like Simon Pegg and maybe some good can come of this. However I don't think the people in charge now care a lick about the whole franchise or pre-2009 fans. I would love a TV Movie honoring the 50th with perhaps Kirk and Spock on an Academy vessel or something. Just a one-off that was short, sweet and a tip of the hat to the show that started it all.
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Post by CRAMBAM on Feb 15, 2015 18:33:00 GMT -5
I'd be fine with anything that dealt with the prime universe.
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Post by trekkielo on Feb 21, 2015 13:27:46 GMT -5
Looks like the Orci haters got their wish. Simon Pegg is now one of the writers. At this point, my interest in the movie is nil, until I hear plot. Maybe it's not as bad as ya think, when you said Simon Pegg, I immediately thought about this article with his interview from almost 2 years ago!  Simon Pegg's Star Trek Reboot Theory: Is this the "Mirror " Crew?io9.com/simon-peggs-star-trek-reboot-theory-is-this-the-mirro-499064330Mirror Crew?Pegg has his own theory about how Abrams' Star Trek fits into the original show's continuity: "I had this idea. I think the we might all be the mirror [universe] crew." Perhaps in the third movie, we'll see that "something's going to go to shit, we're all going to turn bad, Spock's going to grow a beard, and we're going to meet ourselves. That could happen." |
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Post by CRAMBAM on Feb 22, 2015 10:04:59 GMT -5
I don't see how that could happen, though it would be a little interesting.
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Post by StarFuryG7 on Feb 22, 2015 12:55:02 GMT -5
Pegg has his own theory about how Abrams' Star Trek fits into the original show's continuity: "I had this idea. I think the we might all be the mirror [universe] crew." Perhaps in the third movie, we'll see that "something's going to go to shit, we're all going to turn bad, Spock's going to grow a beard, and we're going to meet ourselves. That could happen." The problem is that these characters, Kirk and Spock especially, have been too idealistic in the first two films, with that going against the grain of who they appear to be in a big way, so I don't see how I can buy into his premise frankly. Yeah, there's a lot of things going sideways in that universe, with Admiral Marcus being a prime example of it in the last movie, but this Kirk isn't evil, and Quinto's Spock, who arguably has a reason to become evil given what happened to his home world, hasn't shown any such inclination either. Also, in the Mirror universe, Kirk became Captain of the Enterprise by assassinating Pike, who presumably was a scumbag as well, but we've seen in the reboot films that Pike was actually a good man, nor would this Kirk have ever dreamed of assassinating him, Nero's incursion aside. |
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Post by CRAMBAM on Feb 22, 2015 18:20:34 GMT -5
Not only that, we saw that the mirror universe was filled with evil people on Enterprise.
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Post by captainbasil on Feb 23, 2015 7:51:33 GMT -5
Everybody has done the Mirror Universe to death. I wish they would give it a rest. The best Mirror story I've seen recently was Star Trek Continues. Even the opening credits were from their point of view. It was fun but it needs to be put to bed.
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Post by CRAMBAM on Feb 23, 2015 17:49:46 GMT -5
Yeah, but none of that stuff is original.
I highly doubt they are going to turn the crew evil and make them the mirror universe though.
I think we are going to get a movie where they are too dumb to take advantage of the 50th, and while it may be good, it won't be worthy of such a big anniversary.
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Post by StarFuryG7 on May 27, 2015 12:31:20 GMT -5
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Post by StarFuryG7 on May 28, 2015 11:33:36 GMT -5
This is actually a better article about this . . . |
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Post by CRAMBAM on May 30, 2015 9:33:21 GMT -5
That would be tremendous but until they sign him, it doesn't mean anything. Nothing we haven't heard before.
Obviously since the Orci script had Shatner and Nimoy together, that can't happen now, so they would have to do something different.
Too many teases to be anything other than skeptical.
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