Are people open to moving this forum to elsewhere?

[StarFuryG7]

And I don't mean on Reddit. There are a couple of better alternatives and I think we can do better. I guess we could always leave this place open as an emergency meetup place or some such thing, but I find this interface rather antiquated and challenging to work with, especially when I'm travelling. We can vote on a name, or Cram and I can discuss and create the new forum on our own. However you guys would want to do it would be fine with me.

If you're open to the idea please let me know and we can take the next steps. As I said though, it won't be on Reddit. Unfortunately they've gone way too woke over there, and I'm extremely disappointed with that platform. The left-wing lunacy that has taken over the country is far too pervasive there and has made it a rather distasteful environment in many respects.

[CRAMBAM]

Like where? Is there a spot where we can grow it? I think the key that makes this forum different, other than us being in charge, is conservative opinions will be allowed and not demonized.

If we control it, I'm open.

[StarFuryG7]

Jan 26, 2021 7:57:02 GMT -5 CRAMBAM said:

Like where? Is there a spot where we can grow it? I think the key that makes this forum different, other than us being in charge, is conservative opinions will be allowed and not demonized.

If we control it, I'm open.

Well, at least one of the two places I will suggest is actually for conservatives, although everyone is welcome there.

Ruqqus is one of the newer and emerging platforms. I hear their servers, as was the case with Parler, are located on Amazon's servers also, so who knows what that could mean. Or it may be true, but like Gab, they may also have a precautionary backup plan that the public isn't really aware of in case Amazon decides to yank the plug on them the way they did to Parler, thus having put them out of business basically.

ruqqus.com/+ScienceFiction

That's my new forum (called 'Guilds' there). My account on this platform is just a few weeks old, and so is this Guild. I'm not necessarily endorsing that place however. Clearly there aren't many subscribers at the moment, and it's difficult to grow a subscriber base on an emerging platform like that one. I was going to mention this Guild about a week or so ago, but decided to hold off because it's not my intent to try and draw people away from here. That didn't work out all that great several years ago when I joined the SF sub on Reddit that I was also moderating for a good while, although a couple of people did come over.

If you're looking for something more neutral, there's also here:

saidit.net/

I only discovered this site within the last day or so after seeing a message about Reddit alternatives on Reddit interestingly enough, probably posted by someone over there that's as disgusted with them as I am now. That message was from almost an year ago, so this platform has been around for a little while also. I'm not yet a member there and as yet know nothing about the kind of people that run it and whether they're liberal or conservative. So we would both be starting there at ground zero basically. Again, that is if you prefer a more neutral platform. Or you can create a forum on Guild. Whatever you and others here think is best would be fine by me, as I said.

Just posting links here can be an ordeal. Yesterday I had a difficult time with the post about the new Paramount+ trailer. I actually lost my first attempt by accident and had to start again from scratch, which annoyed the hell out of me. And that was by no means the first time that happened to me. It's actually happened a few times in the last week. It's not as easy to post here as it is on Reddit, Ruqqus, or SaidIt, given the similar looks of the latter.

I hope other people speak their minds about this also. It needs to be a group effort.

[CRAMBAM]

Let's see what some people think. And we really don't have to close this place either.

One thing I like about this board is the organization. I looked at the Ruqus one and it seems like people posts topics but they aren't as organized as here.

Same with SaidIt. Is there a forum that we can set up similar to here?

And have you noticed that when you click on REPLY rather than QUICK REPLY, a slew of options pop up, including quotes and links?

[StarFuryG7]

Jan 27, 2021 7:09:30 GMT -5 CRAMBAM said:

Let's see what some people think. And we really don't have to close this place either.

One thing I like about this board is the organization. I looked at the Ruqus one and it seems like people posts topics but they aren't as organized as here.

Same with SaidIt. Is there a forum that we can set up similar to here?

And have you noticed that when you click on REPLY rather than QUICK REPLY, a slew of options pop up, including quotes and links?

I don't use Quick Reply. I Quote most of the time when replying, and that's part of what I'm talking about because the interface is so dated and out of step with more modern technology.

Ruqqus and SaidIt are similar to Reddit. SaidIt even looks like they're using the same code as Reddit. Their older code for their classic interface anyway. The forums on both of those platforms is similar to the old AOL Message Boards in that the forum itself is meant for posting topics and that's about it. If you want to address something different, such as real-world topics, you go to a forum intended for that. So that's the difference compared to here, but it's basically the same as the old AOL Message Boards functioned as, which is why there was designated areas/folders for different kinds of topics. I remember the old "Rumors and Suppositions" section there, which was totally different from "The Neutral Zone" board, where shows other than Trek could be discussed, all under the umbrella of the "Star Trek" forum there. But new topics were introduced with new subject headers, and they scrolled down as new ones were added. That's actually one of the things I like about the various Reddit-type platforms.

Unfortunately those are the message boards of the present, but they're easier to work. I can post on the fly to them very quickly. I actually do it when I'm on the outside and on the go a lot of the time, which is something I can't really do here. What I mean is that if I'm in a Supermarket over the weekend (usually on a Sunday), and I'm waiting on a checkout line to get to a register, I can flip through news headings and if I see something interesting I can post it 1, 2, 3. And that's it. Done. Not here. It's far more aggravating by comparison.

So I see that as a major drawback to this forum. You would think ProBoards would have advanced their interface by this time, but no. They're still using software and architecture from 25 years ago, as I said.

To me it's a major turnoff.

[Mel]

Just when Cram gets this board going again, Gary wants to move it. Well, that's entirely up to Cram.

Gary's comment made me flash back to when he posted that this board was dead and maybe it should be shut down.

One never knows.

[Mel]

When I logged on here, it said there was 5 of us viewing. Now it says 15 are viewing!! Yay!!

[StarFuryG7]

Jan 28, 2021 14:33:30 GMT -5 Mel said:

Just when Cram gets this board going again, Gary wants to move it. Well, that's entirely up to Cram.

Gary's comment made me flash back to when he posted that this board was dead and maybe it should be shut down.

One never knows.

I guess we can put Mel down as a No then.

TK has yet to weigh in one way or the other, and Cram is apparently leaning as a hard no. And apparently Kilted has decided to stop dropping by because he doesn't like our assessment of new Trek, which means there's only four of us apparently, and I was very clear in saying this needed to be a group decision.

What bothers me most about this forum is how dated and antiquated its setup and interface is. I can post on the fly very easily on the other boards, but I can't really do that here. It takes more time and can be very aggravating, especially when I'm bouncing around on an Express bus traveling to and from the City. I really hate it sometimes.

[Mel]

Feb 1, 2021 10:04:10 GMT -5 StarFuryG7 said:

I guess we can put Mel down as a No then.

... I was very clear in saying this needed to be a group decision.

Seems to me it's Cram's choice.
Regardless, if the board moves, I will try to follow.  I love this board and always have.

[StarFuryG7]

Feb 4, 2021 22:48:16 GMT -5 Mel said:

Feb 1, 2021 10:04:10 GMT -5 StarFuryG7 said:

I guess we can put Mel down as a No then.

... I was very clear in saying this needed to be a group decision.

Seems to me it's Cram's choice.

Fine, Mel. You have no say on the matter.

The rest of us get to decide for ourselves.

[CRAMBAM]

I wouldn't call it a hard no, but what I like about this forum is the format. I don't care where we are though the format is key.

I liked TrekBBS. But the people there were intolerant douchebags. The options presented so far were not as user friendly as here.

What about inviting some of those people on those other forums here?

[StarFuryG7]

Feb 7, 2021 10:56:51 GMT -5 CRAMBAM said:

I wouldn't call it a hard no, but what I like about this forum is the format. I don't care where we are though the format is key.

I liked TrekBBS. But the people there were intolerant douchebags. The options presented so far were not as user friendly as here.

What about inviting some of those people on those other forums here?

I don't think you understand people that use platforms like Reddit. That's the kind of format they like and are accustomed to, and there are a lot of members, whereas here the format is outdated and there is at best only a handful of people. I could invite them, but I'm trying to transition away from Reddit because it's so hopelessly left-wing, and the other platforms such as Ruqqus and SaidIt are much, much newer and have only a small number of members by comparison. But again, those are people from Reddit that like the setup.

[CRAMBAM]

This left wing thing is such a problem. This board is kind of a sanctuary. About the most political it will get will be calling out Hollywood for what it is.

There's no reason we can't be on multiple forums.

[StarFuryG7]

Feb 15, 2021 13:02:26 GMT -5 CRAMBAM said:

This left wing thing is such a problem. This board is kind of a sanctuary. About the most political it will get will be calling out Hollywood for what it is.

There's no reason we can't be on multiple forums.

For me it's a problem. I'm just being honest. And it's not even about the antiquated interface and format. It's about how I post more than anything really. People may not realize this, but a lot of times I post very much on the fly. I touched on this some weeks back. I could be standing on the checkout line in a supermarket, and if the line is moving slow and I see a headline, I might literally post an article as I'm waiting to pay for the groceries. Or I'll do it on my way to or from work, or while I'm in the office, sometimes on lunch, but not only then. If I take a momentary break and see an article, I have to post it fast in that situation. On Reddit I can do that. On Ruqqus I can also, but not here. Here it takes longer and is a headache and a problem, so if people want to stick with here, fine, but I can't promise I'll be posting article links all the time. They may well make it to a sub on Reddit, but not here, and not because I'm being an a-hole, but for the reason I just stated. It's an inconvenience, it takes too long, and is therefore a problem.

I don't see why I should be the one having to always post the articles anyway. On Reddit, for example, there are and would be other contributors. Here, it seems it's just me.

I really don't get that.

[Mel]

I've never known what to think of your blitzkrieg postings, a link and nothing else. At least this explains how it's done. Still, I've often wondered why you think we'd want to read the article when you can't be bothered to comment on it.

But that's me.

[StarFuryG7]

Feb 20, 2021 19:17:52 GMT -5 Mel said:

I've never known what to think of your blitzkrieg postings, a link and nothing else. At least this explains how it's done. Still, I've often wondered why you think we'd want to read the article when you can't be bothered to comment on it.

But that's me.

Mel, what is it about me that makes you want to zing me all the time? Have I so offended you personally somewhere along the line to make you want to do this almost any time you post something in my direction?

And just for clarification, yes, a lot of the time when I post I don't really have the time to comment, but I'm also seeking to bring news items to the attention of people that they may not have heard about, which shouldn't necessitate me having to comment about such items all the time necessarily.

[Mel]

Good grief.

I'm not zinging you.

I said what I meant. You'd post a lot of links, but not comment on them. I didn't see the point of that. I didn't know that you had read the article, or glanced at it while in line, found it interesting, and decided to share it. I didn't know that because you didn't comment to tell us that.

[StarFuryG7]

Feb 22, 2021 23:53:05 GMT -5 Mel said:

Good grief.

I'm not zinging you.

I said what I meant. You'd post a lot of links, but not comment on them. I didn't see the point of that. I didn't know that you had read the article, or glanced at it while in line, found it interesting, and decided to share it. I didn't know that because you didn't comment to tell us that.

Mel, I don't know whether you're actually aware that you're doing it or not, but it seems since a handful of us have returned that you're always looking to express some kind of criticism about me and what I think, accompanied by some kind of dig. That's just the way you've been coming across to me, and I suspect I'm not the only one here able to see it.

Just saying. I can take it, so that isn't really the issue. It's just that if you do have some kind of a personal beef or gripe with me, I wish you would just come out and say what it's about and why. I would have more respect for that, and it will give you an opportunity to get whatever it may be off your chest, so to speak.

[Mel]

Mar 1, 2021 8:50:29 GMT -5 StarFuryG7 said:

Mel, I don't know whether you're actually aware that you're doing it or not, but it seems since a handful of us have returned that you're always looking to express some kind of criticism about me and what I think, accompanied by some kind of dig. That's just the way you've been coming across to me, and I suspect I'm not the only one here able to see it.

Just saying. I can take it, so that isn't really the issue. It's just that if you do have some kind of a personal beef or gripe with me, I wish you would just come out and say what it's about and why. I would have more respect for that, and it will give you an opportunity to get whatever it may be off your chest, so to speak.

First off, I thought about this -- BEFORE reading your post above -- and was going to mention this:  I think it may come down to a difference in our ages. Being older, I'm not attached to a cell phone like younger generations. I don't read it while waiting in lines and such. To me, it's mostly a phone, and a way to play games when waiting at a doctor's office, etc.  It never occurred to me that you were standing in line, or just plain too busy to write more.

If a handful of people here, rather than just you, hear a tone in my writing, that is news to me.  Because, frankly, I take care when writing to you.  You can be mean and hurtful and enjoy it.

When I posted that Paul was dying, you wrote several paragraphs complaining about everything that Paul had ever done to piss you off (all of which I remembered without you bringing it up) rather than simply say something kind like, I'm sorry for your loss Mel.

Others in here wrote me messages offering kind words about Paul, and saying they were sorry. A few mentioned that what you wrote was uncalled for. None of them posted about that on the boards here.

If I zinged you, I'm sorry, I'm unaware of it.

[StarFuryG7]

Mar 4, 2021 2:35:33 GMT -5 Mel said:

First off, I thought about this -- BEFORE reading your post above -- and was going to mention this:  I think it may come down to a difference in our ages. Being older, I'm not attached to a cell phone like younger generations. I don't read it while waiting in lines and such. To me, it's mostly a phone, and a way to play games when waiting at a doctor's office, etc.  It never occurred to me that you were standing in line, or just plain too busy to write more.

If a handful of people here, rather than just you, hear a tone in my writing, that is news to me.  Because, frankly, I take care when writing to you.  You can be mean and hurtful and enjoy it.

When I posted that Paul was dying, you wrote several paragraphs complaining about everything that Paul had ever done to piss you off (all of which I remembered without you bringing it up) rather than simply say something kind like, I'm sorry for your loss Mel.

Others in here wrote me messages offering kind words about Paul, and saying they were sorry. A few mentioned that what you wrote was uncalled for. None of them posted about that on the boards here.

If I zinged you, I'm sorry, I'm unaware of it.

You do realize that you just called me a terrible person in your own way, right? I mean, I can be mean and hurtful and enjoy it. What am I even supposed to say in response to that kind of a comment?

I don't think you understand me at all to be perfectly honest. You think I enjoyed criticizing Paul after news of his passing broke? Perhaps it seemed that way, but I wouldn't say I enjoyed it. Do you even remember my nickname for Paul? If you do, you think I randomly just dreamed that up for no real reason other than as something to use against him?

Tell me something, Mel. If someone you didn't know happens to just wander into your orbit, and they make it clear pretty much from the get-go that they just don't like you, for whatever reason. In fact, from your standpoint there may not even be a good reason. All you know is that this person just doesn't like you, and has no qualms about showing their disdain, and at times perhaps even contempt for you, how do you think you would feel? Do you think you'd deserve it? Do you think you would think you were actually the problem, or would you see the problem as being them, and their simply not liking you, and their making that clear time and time again, even if you were just expressing your opinions about something, like a TV show, perhaps? And yet this person wants to make your opinion of a friggin' TV show personal, as though you don't have a right to your own opinion about a show.

The truth is, I'm not even sure why Paul didn't like me. I just know he didn't. Now sometimes life is like that. We meet people, and sometimes personalities just clash. That was kind of what happened with me and Paul I guess. And he had two screen names. One that he used when he wasn't on the job, and one he used in the sections he was there to monitor. For some time as I recall, I didn't even know he was a moderator there, and that may have been my own fault in a way because I usually tended to only frequent the NZ in the Star Trek forum because I liked the more open flexibility there in being able to talk about other sci-fi shows as well. It wasn't until the Rumors and Suppositions board in the 'Enterprise' section became the most popular place there, and I was watching ENT weekly and felt more inclined to comment about it being that it was a prequel that I moved out of the NZ that I started to have a broader view of the place. But years prior to that I learned Paul was a moderator, and which one he was, and I recalled prior scrapes here and there that I had gotten into with him. It made more sense finally. At times Paul abused his position, simply because he didn't like me. Now imagine figuring this all out in retrospect. So the guy couldn't stand me to begin with, and on top of it he was a dick as a moderator. And even after all of it, the pure disdain and contempt that he tended to display, which brings me back to my nickname for him. Again, it didn't just come to me out of thin air. Rather, he had earned it. Believe me, he did. You say you remember the encounters I had with him, when in reality you only saw a small fraction of them at best. Do you remember some of the things Cram had to say about Paul after he passed, or do you only remember what I said about him? I'm not saying Cram went over the line. He didn't, but he was honest. He didn't go as far as I did, but I really didn't have much to say about Paul. It was a few paragraphs at best, but I was getting things off of my chest about the guy. That doesn't mean I took pleasure in his passing. I remember going out of my way here more than once to say that I took no pleasure from hearing the news. And maybe I should have just stayed silent, but at the same time, I have always been a person who speaks his mind. Have you really not figured that out about me after all this time?

But this view of me that you have, as a mean and hateful person...I'm not sure why you have to personalize the situation to such an extent. Why does it all have to be about you and how you feel? We were a community...what was left of one anyway. Aren't we all entitled to speak our minds and say what we think, even when news of someone passing happens to be brought to the attention of the community?

Do you want to know what I really think about Paul?

Paul didn't want to know me, and he didn't want to like me. And so a good many years passed where that was the case, because that was how he felt, and that was what he was content with. He was a friend to you, but he was no friend to me because he didn't want to be. He made no effort, showed no interest, and sure as shit never tried in the least.

I don't know why I should be required to mourn the passing of someone like that even though I never would have wished him dead. But I can also tell you this. If it were the other way around, and I had been the one who croaked, Paul sure as hell wouldn't have missed me in the least either, nor would be have in any way mourned my passing. I don't think he would have even viewed it as something of a missed opportunity.

That's how much he gave a shit about me.

And I'm glad you got that off your chest. At least you coughed it up finally.

[CRAMBAM]

I'm actually trying to remember the conversation. If Paul was Bird of Prey on AOL, I definitely remember him. But I don't remember what I said when he passed. Did this happen before or after we created this board?

[StarFuryG7]

Mar 5, 2021 10:46:46 GMT -5 CRAMBAM said:

I'm actually trying to remember the conversation. If Paul was Bird of Prey on AOL, I definitely remember him. But I don't remember what I said when he passed. Did this happen before or after we created this board?

Well after. You simply mentioned not liking him either a few times in the process of defending my having spoken my mind back then, saying I probably preferred being honest rather than being a disingenuous phony about his passing. I don't know whether you're also one of the people she's referring to as questioning what I chose to say, but it doesn't really matter. Paul was who he was, and some people liked him, while others, perhaps not so much. In the end you decided that leaving my message about Paul up for another five days was the fair thing to do, and that then you would remove it. I didn't object to it. This is what I remember pretty clearly. I no longer have those posts, and I believe once something gets deleted here that it's gone for good, which isn't the case on Reddit. There a moderator can remove an offending post from view, but if the person that wrote it doesn't delete it himself, it remains there in the background totally out of view, and in the author's message history.

But I definitely wasn't doing a jig about Paul having died. That would be sick and perverse, nor was I brought up to think in such twisted terms.

Quite the opposite actually. 

[Mel]

Mar 4, 2021 22:39:06 GMT -5 StarFuryG7 said:

Do you want to know what I really think about Paul?

Nope, and I didn't read it.

[StarFuryG7]

Mar 6, 2021 2:30:23 GMT -5 Mel said:

Mar 4, 2021 22:39:06 GMT -5 StarFuryG7 said:

Do you want to know what I really think about Paul?

Nope, and I didn't read it.

That's too bad because it probably wasn't what you would apparently like to think.

But at least I now know not to waste any of my time on you either.

Be well, Mel.

[CRAMBAM]

Mar 5, 2021 19:14:01 GMT -5 StarFuryG7 said:

Mar 5, 2021 10:46:46 GMT -5 CRAMBAM said:

I'm actually trying to remember the conversation. If Paul was Bird of Prey on AOL, I definitely remember him. But I don't remember what I said when he passed. Did this happen before or after we created this board?

Well after. You simply mentioned not liking him either a few times in the process of defending my having spoken my mind back then, saying I probably preferred being honest rather than being a disingenuous phony about his passing. I don't know whether you're also one of the people she's referring to as questioning what I chose to say, but it doesn't really matter. Paul was who he was, and some people liked him, while others, perhaps not so much. In the end you decided that leaving my message about Paul up for another five days was the fair thing to do, and that then you would remove it. I didn't object to it. This is what I remember pretty clearly. I no longer have those posts, and I believe once something gets deleted here that it's gone for good, which isn't the case on Reddit. There a moderator can remove an offending post from view, but if the person that wrote it doesn't delete it himself, it remains there in the background totally out of view, and in the author's message history.

But I definitely wasn't doing a jig about Paul having died. That would be sick and perverse, nor was I brought up to think in such twisted terms.

Quite the opposite actually. 

Got it. And I guess that makes sense. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and no one should be forced to care when someone they don't like passes away. And for the sake of sensitivity to those that do care, leaving it up for only a few days shows respect to both the person who didn't like the deceased and the people that did.

[Mel]

No, Cram wasn't one of the ones who wrote me privately.