Post by CRAMBAM on Feb 19, 2021 8:11:25 GMT -5
Forgive me if this has a spoiler from Discovery. In terms of the episode that it appears in, it's not really that vital other than setting up the main plot OF that episode.
But since this has been a hot topic for a long time, I think it's fair to give it its own thread.
So let's recap ST09--
Nero and Spock traveled back in time. In Star Trek, up until that point, there was one timeline. So if McCoy travels back in time and saves Edith Keeler, the Nazis win WWII and the entire history as our crew knew it is gone.
Millions died that did not die before.
Because Abrams didn't address anything on screen, I have always maintained that in ST09, the prime universe was wiped out and replaced by the Kelvin timeline.
Fans argued like crazy over that because Abrams said off screen that's not what happened.
But that's not how Star Trek works. He had the chance to address it on screen and chose not to do so.
I always believed this was intentional. I think he didn't want to wipe the timeline, but he also didn't want his characters to be an alternate universe.
But it has to be one or the other.
Without addressing it, the only presumption was that the prime universe is gone.
Presumption.
I also always said that the presumption was rebuttable, and all that had to be done was to prove it on screen.
The existence of Star Trek: Picard did not do that.
The existence of anything beyond the destruction of Romulus did not do that.
A timeline exists, past, present and future, until it is wiped, so that future was wiped by Nero's actions.
And here's your spoiler.
In the opening scene of Discovery, Season 3, Episode 9, we learn that in the future, there was a temporal war, and during this war, a person from the Kelvin universe jumped to the prime universe.
They specifically said that the universe was created by a Romulan mining ship.
Obviously that was a reference to Nero.
So this basically rebuts the wiped timeline, and officially confirms that Spock and Nero did not just time travel like they normally do, and in fact, Nero ended up in a different universe, and that universe's history was altered by his presence, not the prime universe.
This also means that the Kelvin Universe's characters are no more the "real" characters than the mirror universe's characters.
Sadly though, this episode also likely means that Spock Prime died a very horrible death, and it was not due to old age. But that's something that would require real spoilers.
With that, it seems clear that the Kelvin Timeline should now be called the Kelvin Universe, as it does exist separately and distinctly from the Prime Timeline.
But since this has been a hot topic for a long time, I think it's fair to give it its own thread.
So let's recap ST09--
Nero and Spock traveled back in time. In Star Trek, up until that point, there was one timeline. So if McCoy travels back in time and saves Edith Keeler, the Nazis win WWII and the entire history as our crew knew it is gone.
Millions died that did not die before.
Because Abrams didn't address anything on screen, I have always maintained that in ST09, the prime universe was wiped out and replaced by the Kelvin timeline.
Fans argued like crazy over that because Abrams said off screen that's not what happened.
But that's not how Star Trek works. He had the chance to address it on screen and chose not to do so.
I always believed this was intentional. I think he didn't want to wipe the timeline, but he also didn't want his characters to be an alternate universe.
But it has to be one or the other.
Without addressing it, the only presumption was that the prime universe is gone.
Presumption.
I also always said that the presumption was rebuttable, and all that had to be done was to prove it on screen.
The existence of Star Trek: Picard did not do that.
The existence of anything beyond the destruction of Romulus did not do that.
A timeline exists, past, present and future, until it is wiped, so that future was wiped by Nero's actions.
And here's your spoiler.
In the opening scene of Discovery, Season 3, Episode 9, we learn that in the future, there was a temporal war, and during this war, a person from the Kelvin universe jumped to the prime universe.
They specifically said that the universe was created by a Romulan mining ship.
Obviously that was a reference to Nero.
So this basically rebuts the wiped timeline, and officially confirms that Spock and Nero did not just time travel like they normally do, and in fact, Nero ended up in a different universe, and that universe's history was altered by his presence, not the prime universe.
This also means that the Kelvin Universe's characters are no more the "real" characters than the mirror universe's characters.
Sadly though, this episode also likely means that Spock Prime died a very horrible death, and it was not due to old age. But that's something that would require real spoilers.
With that, it seems clear that the Kelvin Timeline should now be called the Kelvin Universe, as it does exist separately and distinctly from the Prime Timeline.
