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Post by StarFuryG7 on Mar 5, 2023 11:37:38 GMT -5
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Post by CRAMBAM on Mar 5, 2023 17:38:04 GMT -5
I don't even need to read the article. It is. I wish I could like it.
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Post by StarFuryG7 on Mar 6, 2023 8:34:28 GMT -5
I don't even need to read the article. It is. I wish I could like it. I watched the new 4k release earlier this year. It's the best version of the film put out. It's tighter and runs smoother, and some of its concepts were even utilized in other works, both in the Trek franchise, and without. It was a film with some big ideas that were pieced together by different writers in a haphazard process of trying to put a script together while filming. That's Paramount's fault because they didn't begin with a coherent plan. No one was in charge of the film, and so everyone ended up in charge of it in order to get it done by a deadline they never should have put in place from the start. It also hurt the franchise in the sense that --as pointed out in this linked to review-- their television division ended up being put in control of sequels that followed it in order to keep the budget and creative process under control. I don't hate the movie, although at times I have because I've looked at it as very damaging to where the franchise went and how it was handled beyond that point in time. It did damage it, and yet it helped bring it back to life. It's a film with some heady concepts, and having looked at it again for the first time in probably close to two decades, I think, despite the haphazard way in which it was all thrown together, there is now a distinct coherent theme that runs through it regarding what's happening in the story. To some extent that might even have been subconscious on the part of the people who wrote it, with the baton being picked up where one writer left off, and the next writer came in to resolve and finish it. If you were to watch it again and pay attention to its overall story, you might well realize yourself what the message is once you've finished watching it. Star Trek was never meant to be Star Wars. The studio just wanted a tentpole property they could bank on and boast about in the wake of Star Wars. As The writer comments in this JoBlo piece, it's remarkable how clueless they were in terms of their sensibilities about the difference between the two properties. One was an action fantasy set in a futuristic universe, while the other was a sci-fi drama that tended to address themes common to humanity and especially during the time in which it was produced. Both could be enjoyed in different ways and for different reasons, and yet the studio was clueless about what to do with their own intellectual property on the Trek side, whereas Lucas knew he was working with comic book material which he wanted to be as good as he could make it. If only Paramount knew what it was they were looking to achieve when they set out to produce TMP. |
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Post by CRAMBAM on Mar 8, 2023 17:23:59 GMT -5
I don't hate the movie either, but it's just really boring, and a bit similar to The Changeling, which was a 50 minute version. Obviously it's not a clone of that episode, but the ancient Earth probe that got intelligent had been done.
Ultimately, they did figure it out because TWOK is still the standard for Star Trek movies. MUCH better movie. Star Trek was never Star Wars, but it was not Star BORES either. I just made that up. Anyway, TOS was a mixture of action and humanity at its finest, and I think TWOK-TSFS-TVH captures that incredibly. If those 3 movies were the ONLY Star Trek movies, I think they would have been considered one of the greatest trilogies in any genre.
I'm not a fan of TMP, but they clearly learned from their mistakes. And you can make the same comment about TUC. TFF was not good. TUC was the apology.
Unfortunately, the movies post-TUC have not been close to capturing the best of Star Trek
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Post by Mel on Mar 10, 2023 2:42:31 GMT -5
Star Trek was never Star Wars, but it was not Star BORES either. I just made that up. Not Star Bores. Too damn funny. I love it! Anyway, TOS was a mixture of action and humanity at its finest, and I think TWOK-TSFS-TVH captures that incredibly. If those 3 movies were the ONLY Star Trek movies, I think they would have been considered one of the greatest trilogies in any genre. I agree completely. I'm not a fan of TMP, but they clearly learned from their mistakes. And you can make the same comment about TUC. TFF was not good. TUC was the apology. I love TUC -- except for Azetbor's makeup and hair. They could have made her more attractive. Yes, Klingon females look fierce and capable of fighting, but that didn't mean some couldn't also have been good looking. The actress, Rosanna DeSoto, was gorgeous. I'm not sure I'd call TUC an apology, as I think it's a very good movie on it's own, but that's me. |
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Post by CRAMBAM on Mar 12, 2023 16:33:05 GMT -5
If TFF didn't exist, and they went right into TUC, I'd agree, but making such a strong movie after such a weak one had the apology feel. I think DeKelley even made a joke along those lines.
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Post by Mel on Mar 16, 2023 2:08:10 GMT -5
If TFF didn't exist, and they went right into TUC, I'd agree, but making such a strong movie after such a weak one had the apology feel. I think DeKelley even made a joke along those lines. Interesting. I hadn't heard that. I did a search for the joke, but didn't find it.  |
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Post by Mel on Mar 16, 2023 2:41:56 GMT -5
If TFF didn't exist, and they went right into TUC, I'd agree, but making such a strong movie after such a weak one had the apology feel. I think DeKelley even made a joke along those lines. Interesting. I hadn't heard that. I did a search for the joke, but didn't find it. I wrote about STTMP, maybe during the last year or two (maybe longer??) but I didn't find my post. I said that truly enjoyed the movie, for perhaps the first time ever. I know that, when I first saw it, I walked out of the theater really disappointed. The more recent viewing, I really enjoyed the film, and I particularly liked the ship, which I hadn't pay attention to during my previous viewings. I saw STTMP the day it opened. When I realized that the crew was out of touch with each other, I wanted a brief reunion scene. And maybe I wanted that scene for me too, since we'd all been out of touch with them for so long. Perhaps occurring after the worm hole, and before arriving at the crisis. For instance, Kirk, Spock and Bones (or more) sitting around a conference table, having coffee and touching base with each other. |
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Post by CRAMBAM on Mar 20, 2023 17:10:55 GMT -5
I think it would be next to impossible to find every quote and interview, especially from 32 years ago, pre internet. It just stuck in my mind. Kelley wasn't shy about admitting TFF missed the mark. Clearly, they all know, and they fixed it. Contrast with the TNG movies, which had only one movie that didn't absolutely suck, and that movie is overrated because it's the only one that didn't suck.
I wonder how much of your reaction was due to the novelty of new Trek with the original crew for the first time in over 10 years. For something that monumental, they needed a much better script. Imagine if they started with TWOK. But the mistakes of that movie LED to TWOK.
There is something to be said about learning from mistakes. Kind of how Rocky V led to Rocky Balboa and eventually the Creed series.
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