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Post by StarFuryG7 on Apr 23, 2014 6:46:51 GMT -5
I'm up to "Charlie X" right now. This book is so detailed, it lists at the beginning of each episode section every draft and writer the script went through. It's amusing and fascinating to see what drafts they were on in preparing the script just weeks after I was born. I love all the insight this book provides regarding the production of the series.
By the way ...I saw that Seven of Nine-Kirk crossover novel in Penn Books two weeks ago and knew it was new, but opened the cover and peered inside just to make sure. However, even though I like Seven of Nine as a character and believe her addition upped the quality of that show quite considerably, it didn't do so enough to really make me a fan of "Voyager", therefore, I wasn't interested in reading that novel. Add to that the fact that it wouldn't be canon material anyway and it just takes the wind out of the sails for me.
It's too bad you guys have so many things on tap that you want to read through first. I would have enjoyed reading these books along with someone else so that we could discuss them as we work our way through, but whatever --life is what it is. In the meantime, I think you guys are just missing out, and I very much suspect that once you've worked your way through all the books you claim to want to read first, you'll have forgotten about the "These Are The Voyages" series altogether and won't bother. I have to point out though that it will be your losses ultimately.
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Post by CRAMBAM on Apr 23, 2014 13:02:31 GMT -5
I also have the Wicked books on the docket. That said, if I don't like the first book, I won't bother continuing to be a completest.
I tried to read the Twilight books awhile back. Heard the buzz, etc. Got 125 pages into the first book when I decided it sucked.
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Post by TrekBeatTK on Apr 23, 2014 13:25:23 GMT -5
I'm up to "Charlie X" right now. This book is so detailed, it lists at the beginning of each episode section every draft and writer the script went through. It's amusing and fascinating to see what drafts they were on in preparing the script just weeks after I was born. I love all the insight this book provides regarding the production of the series. By the way ...I saw that Seven of Nine-Kirk crossover novel in Penn Books two weeks ago and knew it was new, but opened the cover and peered inside just to make sure. However, even though I like Seven of Nine as a character and believe her addition upped the quality of that show quite considerably, it didn't do so enough to really make me a fan of "Voyager", therefore, I wasn't interested in reading that novel. Add to that the fact that it wouldn't be canon material anyway and it just takes the wind out of the sails for me. It's too bad you guys have so many things on tap that you want to read through first. I would have enjoyed reading these books along with someone else so that we could discuss them as we work our way through, but whatever --life is what it is. In the meantime, I think you guys are just missing out, and I very much suspect that once you've worked your way through all the books you claim to want to read first, you'll have forgotten about the "These Are The Voyages" series altogether and won't bother. I have to point out though that it will be your losses ultimately. You have whet my appetite substantially for "These Are the Voyages". Haven't looked forward to reading a Trek book this much probably since I got "Inside Star Trek" years ago. I am definitely going to make it a priority to get in the next couple months. -TK |
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Post by TrekBeatTK on Apr 23, 2014 13:26:56 GMT -5
I also have the Wicked books on the docket. That said, if I don't like the first book, I won't bother continuing to be a completest. I tried to read the Twilight books awhile back. Heard the buzz, etc. Got 125 pages into the first book when I decided it sucked. I couldn't get past the first PARAGRAPH of Twilight. I hated Wicked, but part of that for me is that I'm a big fan of Baum's Oz and Maguire's Oz is just not the same. So your mileage may vary. -TK |
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Post by CRAMBAM on Apr 23, 2014 14:10:12 GMT -5
Harry Potter remains my favorite book series of all time. From the first page to the last, it nailed a great story.
It wasn't boring. It didn't drag. Everything clicked with me.
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Post by Mel on Apr 24, 2014 14:34:58 GMT -5
I don't have Amazon Prime. I read books that are available for free via the library or Kindle. In other words, I won't be buying "These Are the Voyages" until I can afford it, and I dunno when that will happen.
Wow, Gary was born around the time they were working on the Charlie X script. I knew I was older than most of you, but I didn't realize by how much. 
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Post by StarFuryG7 on Apr 24, 2014 19:38:14 GMT -5
I don't have Amazon Prime. I read books that are available for free via the library or Kindle. In other words, I won't be buying "These Are the Voyages" until I can afford it, and I dunno when that will happen.
Wow, Gary was born around the time they were working on the Charlie X script. I knew I was older than most of you, but I didn't realize by how much.
Mel, what are you talking about? I don't have Amazon Prime either, and I bought the Kindle edition of the book for just $9.99. I installed the Kindle App on my Android Tablet and Phone and Viola! That's all there was to it. I now read the book mostly on my phone on my way to and from work. I'm wondering if they plan on releasing a Kindle version of Book Two so I can order that one as well. The Kindle App is free by the way --doesn't cost anything to download, and it will load your book and bookmark on as many devices as you wish, so that if I leave off on a particular page on my phone and then go back to it on my Tablet, it will open the text to right where I left off. By the way, thank you for making me feel younger than I do. My birthday just passed a couple of weeks ago, and it was a milestone, and it has me starting to feel like a bit of an old fuck, which I hate. |
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Post by StarFuryG7 on Apr 24, 2014 19:43:23 GMT -5
You have whet my appetite substantially for "These Are the Voyages". Haven't looked forward to reading a Trek book this much probably since I got "Inside Star Trek" years ago. I am definitely going to make it a priority to get in the next couple months. -TK That's cool --I hope you go ahead with it when you anticipate. If/when you do get your hands on it, mention it here, as I look forward to hearing your impressions about it. |
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Post by StarFuryG7 on May 1, 2014 19:35:10 GMT -5
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Post by StarFuryG7 on Jul 23, 2014 6:56:36 GMT -5
The Kindle Edition of Book Two was released just yesterday. I had been checking back regularly, almost daily, waiting for this to come out, so I wasted no time in ordering it. It looked as though it had been released about a month ago, but then quickly disappeared from their site in about or day or so. I went back to purchase it and it was gone. I don't know whether they mistakenly released it early, or if they screwed up and were offering Book One by accident. In any event, it's available now and I've got it, and will start reading it today probably. |
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Post by captainbasil on Jul 24, 2014 6:53:52 GMT -5
This looks good. I have not read a Trek book in a while. |
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Post by StarFuryG7 on Jul 24, 2014 15:34:42 GMT -5
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Post by TrekBeatTK on Jul 24, 2014 16:22:23 GMT -5
On the one hand, this will probably be at least partially redundant in a lot of its information from other sources. Reminds me of Captain's Logs, which similarly touched upon every series to date and such. But that book and it's follow-up were sloppily edited and only cover up through Voyager season 2. So at least in terms of getting later Trek covered, this sounds good. If it's anything like the excellent Saturday Night Live book Live From New York, then it should be worth a read. That book similarly was told all through oral history. I fear that even at significant length it can only graze certain issues since it has to cover fifty years and thus can't go as seriously in-depth as a book on just one series or season could. But I'm still intrigued and this sounds like another Trek book to add to my Christmas list. (and I'm still itching to get These Are the Voyages at some point). -TK |
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Post by CRAMBAM on Jul 25, 2014 8:54:41 GMT -5
They recently did a book crossover that had Seven of Nine interact with Kirk and crew. It wasn't the best Trek book I've ever read, but it was a good one.
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Post by StarFuryG7 on Jul 26, 2014 0:07:23 GMT -5
They recently did a book crossover that had Seven of Nine interact with Kirk and crew. It wasn't the best Trek book I've ever read, but it was a good one. As I said to you here just after that novel came out, I saw it in the Book Store at Penn Station, but have a hard time wrapping my head around the idea of reading a Trek novel nowadays knowing that it isn't, and won't ever be canon material. That just takes all the fire out of the prospect for me now, whereas back in the 90s and earlier on than that, it didn't. I guess I had a change of heart because of all the talk through the years as to what counts as canon and what doesn't, but who knows --the Trek novels also got pretty lousy by the time I stopped reading them, so I suspect there was sort of a combined marriage going on there with respect to my changing viewpoint about the novels. |
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Post by StarFuryG7 on Jul 26, 2014 0:18:34 GMT -5
Another Kickstarter:
Lost Gene Roddenberry interview part of an intended new TOS documentary |
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Post by CRAMBAM on Aug 4, 2014 12:09:13 GMT -5
Well, look, I know the books aren't canon either, though I have always felt they are simply better stories than we see on screen.
That hasn't changed.
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Post by StarFuryG7 on Aug 4, 2014 12:52:35 GMT -5
So I went on a little rant yesterday that I posted to the Trek forum over on Reddit, and as I had figured at the outset, given the crew there, it didn't go on to gain any traction. I nevertheless wanted to put it out there. I hadn't intended on posting a link to it here, but it occurred to me on my way to work this morning that maybe I should. Feel free to respond to it either here or there, should you feel at all inclined to do so. |
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Post by TrekBeatTK on Aug 4, 2014 15:55:41 GMT -5
So I went on a little rant yesterday that I posted to the Trek forum over on Reddit, and as I had figured at the outset, given the crew there, it didn't go on to gain any traction. I nevertheless wanted to put it out there. I hadn't intended on posting a link to it here, but it occurred to me on my way to work this morning that maybe I should. Feel free to respond to it either here or there, should you feel at all inclined to do so. I replied over there, but I agree that it's a false criticism of TOS to say it was too slow getting started. Though I think TNG did a better job in its earlier seasons than in season 7 when it was winding down. -TK |
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Post by CRAMBAM on Aug 5, 2014 6:35:10 GMT -5
Kind of reminds me of a Voyager teaser, which was literally just Seven playing the piano. Roll the credits.
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Post by captainbasil on Aug 5, 2014 13:22:32 GMT -5
The Reddit guys hate TOS for some odd raason. It's dated, it's this or that. It's the original Trek. Sure, they might like a sequel series better but to dismiss it is wrong. It's like watching Sherlock but saying that Jeremy Brett or Basil Rathbone suck. Well, actually the Redditors do that too.  |
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Post by StarFuryG7 on Aug 5, 2014 15:52:07 GMT -5
I replied over there, but I agree that it's a false criticism of TOS to say it was too slow getting started. Though I think TNG did a better job in its earlier seasons than in season 7 when it was winding down. -TK |
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Post by StarFuryG7 on Aug 5, 2014 16:09:22 GMT -5
The Reddit guys hate TOS for some odd raason. It's dated, it's this or that. It's the original Trek. Sure, they might like a sequel series better but to dismiss it is wrong. It's like watching Sherlock but saying that Jeremy Brett or Basil Rathbone suck. Well, actually the Redditors do that too.
That's what irked me as I sat there watching that godawful episode of TNG late on Saturday night --they have the nerve to call TOS slow, but can abide, and even like and will champion this nonsense? That's why I complained about it the next day. I made a mental note to myself to do that late on Saturday night minutes before shutting off the television, and I'm glad I hadn't forgotten about it.
Another thing that can be annoying about Reddit at times is that once a posts scrolls on to the second Page of a subreddit --particularly the Trek subreddit over there, the discussion usually stops. So by the time I brought it to the attention of you guys over here yesterday, it was already off the Trek Forum's Front Page over there because it hadn't gained any traction during the previous twenty-four hours. The kids over there can also be spiteful and will intentionally not engage when it comes to a crusty old TOS devotee like me posting a message like that over there, but will happily drop their own grenades to be dismissive of the original series mid-thread under any give topic when it suits them. I think they also have a lot to do with why "Prelude to Axanar" is all but being ignored over there by most of them, except for old school Trekkers like me who are into it. They're either TNG and post-TNG modern Trekkies, or are into the Abrams slop being passed off as Trek ...although in all fairness, Abrams Trek does also take a lot of hits over there from the crowd who populate the place. |
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Post by TrekBeatTK on Aug 7, 2014 22:08:02 GMT -5
Just posted this over on reddit.
I know some newer viewers prefer shows like TNG, DS9 or even ENT and don't give TOS as much thought, time or respect. While I can understand that, there are certain episodes that will enhance your appreciation for the later series, some which are directly referenced. So I've compiled a list of all the TOS that I feel is essential viewing for fans of the other series. Note, this is not a "best of" list, and some stand-out episodes ("Doomsday Machine") were not included because they lacked direct connection to later shows. I think TNG or DS9 fans will have a greater appreciation even if these were the only TOS they ever saw.
The Naked Time -- obviously TNG's "The Naked Now" is a sequel
The Enemy Within -- first transporter accident, first use of the Famous Spock Neck Pinch. Many of these themes would be revisited in subsequent shows.
Dagger of the Mind -- introduced the mind meld
The Menagerie -- I included this one for fans of Captain Pike in the JJ movies
Balance of Terror -- introduced Romulans
Shore Leave -- no direct corollary, but the first "sillier" show, and a spiritual predecessor to episodes like "If Wishes Were Horses" (DS9)
The Squire of Gothos -- Q is very much like Trelane
Arena -- referenced on DS9 several times, and a CG Gorn was seen on ENT
Tomorrow is Yesterday -- slingshot time travel
Space Seed -- KHAAN!
Errand of Mercy -- first Klingon story, introduced Kor
City on the Edge of Forever -- because it's awesome. And there are little nods to it in some eps
Amok Time -- pon farr
Mirror, Mirror -- you can't watch DS9's mirror episodes without this background!
Metamorphosis -- introduced Zefram Cochrane
Journey to Babel -- Spock's parents, the planet Babel and several species (Andorians, Tellarites) are all introduced here
The Trouble With Tribbles -- has a direct sequel on DS9
By Any Other Name -- referenced in "Relics" (TNG)
The Ultimate Computer -- we meet Daystrom (for whom the Institute is named)
The Enterprise Incident -- cloaking devices!
Is There In Truth No Beauty? -- the Vulcan notion of IDIC
Day of the Dove -- Kang introduced
The Tholian Web -- this one is essential background for the ENT episode "In a Mirror, Darkly"
Elaan of Troyius -- referenced by Scotty in "Relics"
The Savage Curtain -- introduced Kahless (though he of course looks very different)
and the essential movies:
Star Trek II: the Wrath of Khan -- more KHAAAAAAAN!
Star Trek III: The Search For Spock -- essential middle chapter, and certain gags are referenced later
Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home -- because it's great
Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country -- ties into the Klingon backstory of TNG
Any TOS fans think of any I missed? Hope that helps any newer viewers or Modern Trek fans willing to give TOS a shot.
-TK
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Post by CRAMBAM on Aug 8, 2014 7:00:46 GMT -5
What episodes have nods to City on the Edge?
And wow did DS9 ruin Mirror Mirror.
Take an episode that introduces hope to the hopeless, and then have those that tried to make a better world, make things worse.
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Post by TrekBeatTK on Aug 8, 2014 7:19:46 GMT -5
What episodes have nods to City on the Edge? And wow did DS9 ruin Mirror Mirror. Take an episode that introduces hope to the hopeless, and then have those that tried to make a better world, make things worse. There are minor visual nods in "Past Tense" for example. I guess you really don't NEED to see City on the Edge, but I felt weird not including it. I think "Crossover" was a fair exploration of saying that nothing is static and gave a renewed hope, but that there were diminishing returns on that universe as the series went on. -TK |
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Post by CRAMBAM on Aug 8, 2014 13:55:25 GMT -5
I get that, but I think DS9 completely ruined the hope and optimism from the end of Mirror Mirror. It was a terrible creative decision.
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Post by StarFuryG7 on Aug 9, 2014 0:08:55 GMT -5
I get that, but I think DS9 completely ruined the hope and optimism from the end of Mirror Mirror. It was a terrible creative decision. I totally agree. I pretty much tuned the entire DS9 Mirror universe arc out because of that shit. |
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Post by StarFuryG7 on Aug 12, 2014 12:45:22 GMT -5
Just posted this over on reddit. -TK |
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Post by TrekBeatTK on Aug 12, 2014 15:33:01 GMT -5
It's nice to see you're becoming more active in the Trek forum over there, but I've frankly about had it with them in that subreddit and will probably be spending a lot less time there from this point on. I'm that disgusted by the children there and the kind of crap they routinely pull. Fair enough. I'll give it a little time and see how it strikes me. EDIT: A guy claiming to be an astrophysicist had the gall to say the Star Wars has dated effects shots, lumping it in the same sentence as old Doctor Who. Sure in Jedi the puppetry and composites aren't always great, but I wouldn't consider them "very dated". Still, he's watching TNG for the first time and actually likes the first season, so I recommended TOS (or TOS remastered if effects are an issue for him). If he can enjoy "Code of Honor", then he can certainly enjoy TOS. -TK |
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