Once Upon A Time

[CRAMBAM]

Does anyone watch this show? I think it's the best first season show on TV.

[TrekBeatTK]

I've watched it and I really like it. So far my only real problems with it are that it sticks with Disney names, and sometimes Disney invention, for some of the characters. I know it's an ABC show, but I don't think we need to continue perpetuating some of those story myths. I'm also flabbergasted by the continued revisionism that wants Snow White to be some kind of highway bandit (the two upcoming movies have similar ideas). But that aside, it's nicely structured, having both a Stephen King and Lost feel to it.

I've been doing a play and haven't been home Sunday nights so I've missed SOOOO much of this season, but I hope to catch up soon.

-TK

[CRAMBAM]

Well, it's interesting, because unlike say, Trek canon, you have some room here. This show doesn't pretend to be the sole source of these stories.

I do wonder if they are supposed to be more the Disney versions rather than the original versions. They mentioned the Little Mermaid in the last episode in passing, which seems to imply they are going the Disney route.

I don't mind the changes they've done. It's obvious there is a long term plan here, and it's going to be a good ride.

[gavin1701]

It's a good show. It's almost the reverse Lost. I always found the island stories more compelling than the flashbacks. But on this show the flashbacks are usually more compelling than the events in Storybrook. I also think the supporting characters are a lot stronger than the protagonist (if we're assuming that's Emma).

[CRAMBAM]

I think maybe the best thing to do with current shows is to allow one day for the DVR people to watch and then allow spoilers as you see fit.

I've been holding back so far on shows like this because of fear on spoiling.

It's been awhile since we all dealt with shows that are actually on the air, and I don't think we're used to it anymore.

How does that sound?

[TrekBeatTK]

I'm finally caught up with this show (though I still missed an episode or two in the middle there somewhere). I'm kinda looking forward to the day it's all on DVD and I can watch all the flashbacks in proper order.

And I'm cool with a no spoiler police for awhile, and maybe mark a post with SPOILER should it contain any.

-TK

[CRAMBAM]

I'm sure that's doable. So I guess might as well talk about last night's episode:

SPOILER








So last night dealt with the origin of Grumpy, and I enjoyed it a LOT. Sometimes the writers take liberties with the characters, and sometimes they decide to work in an origin to get the character from a completely different beginning to where they actually should be.

For some reason, and I think it's unintentional, the Seven Dwarfs origin stories to date have made me laugh a bit.

Why? Because of Stealthy. The second they introduced an 8th Dwarf, you knew he would die. So every time he got on screen, they might as well have named him RedShirt.

This episode took place BEFORE Stealthy was killed, so he showed up again, and again, every time he spoke, I found it funny.

As for the episode itself, I thought it was a great storyline. How Grumpy became so Grumpy.

And it also had a nice parallel story in the real world.

Looking forward to next week's episode too, since it's about Red Riding Hood, and I think the actress is really hot.

[TrekBeatTK]

SPOILERS!!!





I thought Stealthy was very funny too. And the fact that the one in charge of the mines is named Bossy. Wonder who was boss before he came along!

I never would have suspected Dwarfs hatch from eggs. It makes me wonder where the eggs come from. I'm not sure how to feel about fairy dust being made from diamonds. What gives it its magical properties? But it was a nice way to incorporate the fairy world with the grunts on the ground (a little like The Cloud Minders???).

This show has a consistent theme each episode that the romantic idea of love usually just makes you miserable. I like that it's honest that way, but manages to stay true to the themes of the classic stories. It is getting difficult for me to wrap my head around variant folk and fairy tales all being in the same universe. There are multiple kingdoms, so I'm never sure which when we're in at a given time. Hansel and Gretel are such germanic names, it's hard to reconcile them being in the same kingdom as Belle, whose name is clearly French (but who's accent is weirdly Australian).

It's a little tough watching an episode like this after already having met Grumpy, since right away as soon as he laid eyes on Nova I knew where the story was going. Similarly, I agree that the real world story was well done and well-integrated with the other one. But I figured out the ending pretty quickly too. I don't know whether that's a good or bad thing, but I did. I guess if they HADN'T done it I'd have complained that the answer was so obvious.

They refer to the other fairy as "the blue fairy". I wonder if she's the Blue Fairy from Pinocchio (I can't recall if this was brought up in an earlier episode).

I'm not enamored with the Red Riding Hood actress, but I was wondering when they would finally get to her story. also, it seems from the previews that they might be combining the Red Riding Hood story with the tale of Snow White and Rose Red. If so, I think it's a great idea.

-TK

[gavin1701]

I enjoyed this episode. But the characters sure are having a bad time over in fairytale land, too many broken hearts and love going south, you have to wonder why some of them would even want to go back. I understand it if it was a "happily ever after" over there, but it isn't. They have just as much chance of being happy over in their newer reality without the threat of magic ruining their lives. Why would you want to go back to a world where you can be turned into a frog, lose battles, love or your life because someone made a deal with the devil, or worse still eaten by a wolf!!!! ;D

[CRAMBAM]

Well, in most fairy tales, the characters do have to struggle before getting to the point of happily ever after.

Remember, we are dealing a lot with origins and flashbacks. But when we first met these characters in fairy tale land, they were very happy.

Well, not Stealthy.

[CRAMBAM]

SPOILERS








So last night's Once Upon A Time was about Red Riding Hood, who is one of my favorite characters because she's really really hot.

What I like about this show is that in an attempt to keep the story going, they are turning traditional fairy tales on their ears.

Granted, this completely messes up the Red Riding Hood traditional story, but I'm ok with it because it makes good TV. One thing about fairy tales is that they are not so developed. The characters rarely have a backstory that can't be completely made up.

Of course, the one problem is that based on the events of this episode, the story of Red Riding Hood can't happen, but who knows where this will lead?

Meanwhile, it should be interesting to find out how Mary Margaret's finger prints got in that box. Obviously, the queen is responsible. I'm guessing they'll reveal that the fingerprints were taken before the curse started.

[TrekBeatTK]

SPOILERS!!











Yes, at first I wasn't sure I liked what they'd done with the Red story. But in the end, I was okay with it. In the original story, Red and Granny both get eaten, the end. There is no huntsman to save the day; it was a cautionary tale about not wandering into woods and not trusting strangers. So in this version the lycanthropy means that metaphorically the wolf gets Granny and Red too. And I liked that. I also thought they made clever use of the iconic red hood (and actually in all early variants of the story its a little red hat). There were little hints that the same wolf might have been responsible for the three little pigs as well, like Granny blocking off her chimney. I knew pretty early on that it wouldn't have been Peter, because they were pointing too obviously in that direction. I was confused by the use of that name until I remembered Peter and the Wolf.

good episode. Not great episode for me, but has some good revelations in it. But I'm very nervous about where they are taking things next week.

-TK

[CRAMBAM]

I guess if you look at the original story like that, it works even better.

What I was unclear about was what exactly happened to stop Granny from turning into a wolf herself.

As for the Snow/Charming storyline, I'm not sure I'm a big fan of the missing wife plotline.

Hopefully it will be wrapped up soon. I'm far more interested in the stranger who came to town who clearly has some connection to Henry's book. Most are guessing he's the writer, but there's a backstory here. It would be interesting if he were to be a descendant of the Grimms, but that would be an issue with the NBC show I guess.

[gavin1701]

They hinted that it was Granny's age that prevented her from turning when she said she only just had her sense of smell still.

Isn't the heart the Sherriff's? And if you look at the box it looked like it was from fairytale land and not storybrooke, so it could have belonged to snow white and not her alter ego Mary Margaret!

[CRAMBAM]

I thought it was the Sheriff's heart too, but the queen crushed it, so it would be unrecognizable. The BOX was very similar, and queen had more than one of them, so I also believe the fingerprints come from Fairy Tale Land pre-curse.

[TrekBeatTK]

As I thought about it today, I grew to like the explanation of Granny's wolf transformation fading over time. Classic lycanthropy bears a certain analogy to a woman's menstrual cycle. Essentially the show is saying there is a werewolf equivalent to menopause, which I find fascinating. I think this is the first story to deal with the issue of aging werewolves. In nearly every story I can think of, the werewolf dies at the end and never goes on to a full old age. Though at first it felt a little like a cheat, Iv'e since come to like the way Once Upon a Time handled it.

My sister is in agreement that the prints on the box come from before the curse.

-TK

[CRAMBAM]

So is the wolf a WEREWOLF? She looked like one. I always thought werewolves were immortal (barring a silver bullet) and don't GET to old age. That, and they're good at basketball.

I thought the wolf marking Granny made her a wolf. I may have to watch again.

[CRAMBAM]

Another week, and this time, we got some more revelation.

I guess I've come to the point where I like this show enough that I probably wouldn't say too many bad things about it. It has done a good job filling the void left by Lost.

But like Lost, things are slow to develop. I guess it has to be that way if the show is going to run 5 years.

But I wonder if the curse will be broken well before the show ends--kind of like how on Lost, several of them did get off the island.

SPOILERS





So this week, we learn that Rumpelstilskin wanted to bottle the magic of true love, because it is the most powerful magic of all. I guess that will come into play in future episodes.

We also learn that David was able to access a pre-curse memory under hypnosis.

Though David's confrontation with Mary Margaret pissed her off, the big difference is that Mary Margaret didn't access a memory of David wanting to "kill her."

It wasn't exactly an equal footing.

It's also good that they moved enough along to show that the queen does have that universal skeleton key. I'm guessing it will be revealed that she helped Mary Margaret escape.

That said, I am NOT so sure David's wife is dead. In fact, I would be willing to bet she isn't, since we haven't seen a body. And if she is, then maybe the last person to see her is responsible. But that person was HER true love, so maybe their just chilling somewhere. I'm guessing that'll be revealed in the season finale.

I'm very much looking forward to finding out more about August. Is he the author of the book? My favorite out there theory--maybe somehow Rumpelstilskin will use the bottle he just made to create a new life--perhaps a test tube brother of Emma's that she didn't know she had?

Ok, that's a way out there theory, but this is an intriguing character, who is somehow connected to everything, but in theory, should be one of the good guys.

[CRAMBAM]

This week on Once Upon A Time....



SPOILERS






We're starting to get down to the nitty gritty. By bringing in the Mad Hatter, we found someone who can travel between realities. Apparently, Wonderland may not be a part of fairy tale world. It's another reality, just like the real world. At least, that's how I interpret it.

Not unlike Land of the Lost, there are rules for travel between worlds, and the Mad Hatter's magic hat made it impossible for him to return to fairy tale land after the queen's treachery.

We found he was trapped in Wonderland.

That leads to more questions--HOW did he get to the real world? Did the Queen's curse affect Wonderland too, or did the Mad Hatter get back to fairy tale land?

WHY did he remember his identity?

It seems Emma managed to make a hat that worked. Or did it? Where did he go?

And is Emma finally starting to believe the possibility that the curse is real?

[CRAMBAM]

Another week.

SPOILERS



















So this week, we go about as far back in Fairy Tale Land as we have gone--to a time where Snow White was just a kid. We found out why the Queen hates her.

What we learned:

At some time in the future, the Queen will have to get the same power as her mother. How will that happen? Will she get it by killing her mother, or by being taught?

Does the fact that the queen was not always evil make her redeemable, like Darth Vader?

Could the curse be broken because Emma figures out a way to make the queen chill out, and turn good?

The queen's hatred for Snow White is understandable, though it's clearly irrational. The hatred should be directed to her mother.

And how about that actress who played young Snow White? She could almost pass for a young Ginnifer Goodwin. She had facial expressions and even talked like her. Great casting there.

[StarFuryG7]

Apr 2, 2012 13:32:58 GMT -5 CRAMBAM said:

Another week.

SPOILERS
The queen's hatred for Snow White is understandable, though it's clearly irrational. The hatred should be directed to her mother.

SPOILERS
She hates them both obviously, and while her hatred of Snow may seem irrational, it's nevertheless understandable. After all, she entrusted the girl with her most precious secret, and in having betrayed that trust, despite the fact that she was a child, Snow got the Queen's betrothed killed. It's no wonder Regina hates her with such venom and ferocity.

Apr 2, 2012 13:32:58 GMT -5 CRAMBAM said:

Another week.
And how about that actress who played young Snow White? She could almost pass for a young Ginnifer Goodwin. She had facial expressions and even talked like her. Great casting there.

She looked like her too. I sat there wondering if she was perhaps her daughter in reality, or a much younger sister.

I must say, for a show that looks as though it's almost straight out of Disney, I'm impressed with their ability to tell a non-linear story arc without totally screwing it up. There are things I don't like about this show, such as the fact that it's been designed very much with children in mind, and some of their episodes have been uneven or just plain goofy, but their flashback sequences are otherwise pretty well constructed all things considered.

[CRAMBAM]

It's the writers. You have former Lost writers working on this show. They know what they're doing. Plus, they had this show in mind a long time ago.

[gavin1701]

All caught up now. I think ultimately Regina's weakness in Storybrooke will be that she has unintentional feelings for Henry, and if anything is going to turn her, it will be her motherly love for him which we've seen evidence of (she was genuinely worried when he got stuck in the mineshaft).

I still get the feeling that like Lost they are making things up as they go along, which I have no objections to such as when they create backstories, although they probably have a goalpost plan for where they want the season to start and end.

Unlike Lost it isn't really a show that's about answers. We know the big answers already, but the characters don't. However there are surprises such as the appearance of Alan Dale in Storybrooke (up until then I assumed his character was dead in the fairytale world). Which begs the question, if he was from an outside law firm, how is it he is able to come in and out?

I assumed from the episode that was last, that the Queen of Hearts was Regina's mother, but maybe I was wrong. I think the actress really shone this week playing a convincing good and evil is never easy to do without coming off cheesy (Scott Bakula as Mirror Archer springs to mind).

[CRAMBAM]

It's very possible Storybrooke is bigger than we've seen. A lot of characters we haven't met yet, are presumably there all this time.

I'm sure they are making things up as they go along. You kind of have to because you don't know how many seasons you have. Each season should be prepared for a series finale if given enough notice.

Likewise, there will come a point where they need to do something that moves things along.

On Lost, one of the interesting things they did was get people back to civilization long before the show ended. Compare that to say, Voyager, which got them home in the last 60 seconds of the last episode.

I could totally see the Queen's curse begin to break down, and some characters, if not all, begin to remember who they are. Perhaps at some point the curse will be broken, and the queen will work to reinstate it. Or given that this is about fairy tales, the Queen will get her redemption.

I'm hoping things eventually tie together. I'm very interested in following up the Mad Hatter.

He gave some interesting clues about alternate worlds. Fairytale world is an alternate reality. Wonderland is a separate reality that exists outside of fairytale world.

The Queen's magic works in Wonderland. Does it work in the real world? We know some aspects of the fairy tale world exist, like the hearts. We know items from fairytale world like Gheppeto's parents exist in the real world.

As for Alan Dale, maybe his memories are altered to remember a life outside Storybrooke, but he's been there working the entire time.

And no, the Queen of Hearts is not Regina's mother as far as I can tell.

[gavin1701]

Interesting. Just quickly, we know that magic works in Storybrooke when she crushed the Sheriff's heart. Magic had to be keeping him alive without it.

Is the Queen responsible for the curse or is it Rumpelstiltskin's magic?

[CRAMBAM]

Magic from the CURSE was keeping him alive. The real world simulated a heart for him. The heart was taken in fairy tale land.

Clearly the crushing of the heart was a leftover magic from fairy tale land that she could access. But we don't know if true magic can work because we haven't seen anything like that yet. Just residual effects from the curst.

The Queen is responsible for the curse. 100 percent. But she had to make a deal with Rumpelstilskin to learn how to do it. That's why he's set up as a big shot, and the queen has to do things for him as long as he says please.

It also seems that Rumpelstilskin was powerful enough that he actually remembers who he is, which hadn't been clear until recently.

[CRAMBAM]

Finally, a new episode.

Good writing last night. There was a cool misdirection. We now know why Rumplestilskin helped the queen out so much with setting up the curse in the first place.

But we still need to know who August is. He's clearly from Fairytale land, but I'm looking forward to finding out more. Good misdirection. The more it seemed like he was the son, the more I thought it would be a misdirection.

[CRAMBAM]

I think this show is one of the best shows on TV. The last two episodes of the season were excellent.

I'll wait a little before talking spoilers.

[StarFuryG7]

<Spoilers>

I hate Fairy Tale Happy Endings, and while this wasn't exactly that, it came close. I thought Gold's/Rumplestiltskin's move at the very end was a nice touch for a season-ending episode that would have otherwise left me feeling soured by all the sappy happy stuff, however, we know that what he did isn't going to sit well with his hot girlfriend Belle, who wanted him to turn away from dark magic before the Queen got a hold on her and told him she had been killed. His move also had the misfortune of rebooting everything in such a way as to put both him and Queen Bitch in a position of power yet again, which didn't thrill me because the writers hadn't really turned the tables after all once all had been said and done. What might be interesting though is seeing the effects that magic will now have on this sort of in-between world, since things hadn't reverted back to their original universe, with Gold having had to import magic there instead of their all having been transported back to where they originally came from.

All in all though, I wasn't as thrilled with this season finale as you appear to be. It is one of the better crafted shows on television, with a rich non-linear, interwoven back-story and an imaginative premise overall, but it also plays a little too much like a Disney fable, even though it's produced by ABC Studios. It's not one of my more favorite shows to be honest, although it has kept me interested enough to keep tuning in, even though I suspected that wouldn't be the case when I first started watching it at the beginning of the season. So there is something to be said for that.

[CRAMBAM]

SPOILERS












It's a fairy tale--eventually, it will have a happy ending. But it's also a show that's not going to end now, so they can't have a complete ending.

It is interesting to see what will happen with magic in the real world. Are they still in the real world? Can they leave Storybrook? Will it be possible for the queen to use magic outside of Storybrook?

Will they try to take over the world?

If magic now exists in the real world, that would likewise mean that the nuns/fairies will have magic too. There will be good to fight the evil.