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Post by StarFuryG7 on May 14, 2012 16:14:24 GMT -5
SPOILERSIt's a fairy tale--eventually, it will have a happy ending. But it's also a show that's not going to end now, so they can't have a complete ending. It is interesting to see what will happen with magic in the real world. Are they still in the real world? Can they leave Storybrook? Will it be possible for the queen to use magic outside of Storybrook? Will they try to take over the world? |
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Post by gavin1701 on May 15, 2012 6:15:41 GMT -5
I am up to episode 20 now, 3 left. Remember earlier when I speculated the queen wasn't responsible for the curse. Well it looks like I was half correct. It's all part of Rumpelstiltskins plan to find his son. Looks like he was just waiting for someone to make a deal with him that would allow him to get to change reality by collapsing the fairytale world. Makes you wonder if he was behind many of the conflicts that led to this happening.
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Post by gavin1701 on May 15, 2012 6:18:53 GMT -5
Finally, a new episode. Good writing last night. There was a cool misdirection. We now know why Rumplestilskin helped the queen out so much with setting up the curse in the first place. But we still need to know who August is. He's clearly from Fairytale land, but I'm looking forward to finding out more. Good misdirection. The more it seemed like he was the son, the more I thought it would be a misdirection. Yeah I agree. Plus at the beginning of the episode they always show the fairytale character in the forest with the opening intro. This episode they showed August on his motorbike, when clearly they should have shown a little boy with a magic bean. Definitely felt like misdirection when they were reconciling. Things never go that smoothly in drama and the end to conflict has to be earned rather than a simple "sorry". |
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Post by CRAMBAM on May 15, 2012 10:42:42 GMT -5
Hard to talk when you're not caught up. But you will be.
Get cracking!
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Post by CRAMBAM on Oct 1, 2012 6:15:32 GMT -5
I'm going to have to say that this may be my favorite show on TV right now.
Some thoughts.
SPOILERS
I'd like to get some explanation as to what life in Storybrooke was like before Emma got there. If these people didn't age, that would include the children too. Three people in Storybrooke knew who they were. Clearly, there had to be some magic in the real world to prevent this kind of aging.
I could sort of see them in that fog, but things did happen, notably Henry's arrival.
Henry didn't just step into Storybrooke and not age. At what point was he adopted? As a baby? Or much later? And if he was adopted as a baby, then how could it not be noticed that he aged and no one else did?
I don't think things were like Groundhog Day. After all, Mary Margaret was able to get that book to Henry.
As for this episode, I hadn't considered that the story in Fairytaleland took place AFTER the events in Storybrooke, though I picked up early that they had to be post-curse. They pulled something similar in Lost when they started with the flash forwards after 2 seasons of flashbacks.
But it's possible that the wraith in fairytale land arrived right after the incident in Storybrooke, which is why Emma and Snow were in the castle.
For me, the best thing the writers did was dealing with David. The curse ripped away David's decisiveness and conviction. Instantly, he got it back. This was NOT the David we saw last season. He WAS a leader. He WAS decisive, and there was no better demonstration of that than when he stepped up and said he would take care of Henry.
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Post by TrekBeatTK on Oct 1, 2012 20:59:39 GMT -5
I mostly liked the episode. I like the Sleeping Beauty character, though we didn't really get much of her yet. On one hand, the move forward in time, now playing simultaneously in Storybrook and the Fairy Land does echo what Lost ultimately did toward the end of its run (most notably in season 5 when it jumped between people on-island and off, and then in the past and the present), and makes sense here dramatically. But it also signals that this show cannot sustain itself for too long without significantly retooling many times. I don't know what kind of life this series has long term, but I wouldn't want it to go any more than five years.
I don't like Mulan being there at all. Not at all. First, she's kinda a legendary character but in a King Arthur or Robin Hood kind of way, only for China. Second, she's Chinese. What is she doing in this generally European-styled fairy tale kingdom? Granted, we got some Arabian bits in there already with the genie thing, but Mulan as a character just doesn't feel like she fits here. It's like she was only included to be yet one more Disney character, and to make things more multicultural. Also, she seems to be made into something of a villain, since it appeared that she summoned the wraith that attacked Phillip. So I don't like her.
-TK
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Post by StarFuryG7 on Oct 2, 2012 0:04:56 GMT -5
I don't like Mulan being there at all. Not at all. First, she's kinda a legendary character but in a King Arthur or Robin Hood kind of way, only for China. Second, she's Chinese. What is she doing in this generally European-styled fairy tale kingdom? Granted, we got some Arabian bits in there already with the genie thing, but Mulan as a character just doesn't feel like she fits here. It's like she was only included to be yet one more Disney character, and to make things more multicultural. Also, she seems to be made into something of a villain, since it appeared that she summoned the wraith that attacked Phillip. So I don't like her.
I wasn't that tickled by the season premiere in general by he way. The twenty-eight year period without any of them having aged and no explanation for it bugged me, and all the sappy, "Oh, you're my mother!" - "Oh, you're my father!" "Oh, you're my wonderful long lost daughter!" crap was honestly a bit more than I could handle without getting nauseous, which was definitely coming had they kept it up. It's that kind of fairy tale emotional sappiness which really turns me off to shows and movies of this nature. I'll see where it goes, but honestly, it was a bit more than I could stomach. |
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Post by CRAMBAM on Oct 2, 2012 10:16:34 GMT -5
I think the European aspect is not that important. As far as we know, Superman could be flying around there too. Anything is possible in terms of who is there. Though in reality, I think we're confined to Disney movies. Mulan was a Disney movie.
Mulan did not summon the wraith.
In fact, if I have this right, the events in Fairytale land were NOT simultaneous. They occurred AFTER the events in Storybrooke. When the wraith appeared at the castle with Mulan and Sleeping Beauty, I believe that was the moment when Emma and Snow and the Queen sent it to Fairytale Land. While Emma and Snow were unconscious under the rubble, all the stuff we saw in Fairytale Land happened.
It IS a fairy tale story, so in the end, I'm guessing everyone, even Regina and Gold, will have a happy ending.
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Post by CRAMBAM on Oct 10, 2012 8:06:25 GMT -5
This is arguably my favorite show on TV right now.
Thoughts about this week's episode...
My first thought is why would Rumple care about the curse, since he had his memory before Emma broke it?
Turns out I was wrong. He WAS cursed too. He didn't get his memory back until he heard Emma's name in the pilot.
So yes, he'd lose his memory too if he leaves.
Of course, it will be interesting when they somehow reveal how the hell he got Henry into Storybrooke. I wonder if that will happen this season.
I have no problem that they didn't touch too much upon Emma and Snow in Fairytale Land.
Too much to do.
I'm hoping that Charming realizes that Snow and Emma are not his only family responsibility. To an extent he is, but it feels a little held back.
But Henry IS his grandson, and while he may not be able to embrace the grandfather/grandson relationship, I would actually expect him to treat Henry like a long lost son, and take the responsibility very seriously. He has stepped up, but at this point, his main focus is more on Snow and Emma. While I do want that to remain important to him, I'd like to see him bond with Henry just like Emma did in the first season.
I think that's going to happen though.
I'm also enjoying how Grumpy is being treated this season. Grumpy IS grumpy, but grumpy isn't evil. He's as good and heroic as anyone. He just goes about it in a grumpy way. Should be interesting to see how they help Sneezy.
I almost don't want to go back to Fairytale Land because this week's episode was interesting enough, but still looking forward to next week.
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Post by StarFuryG7 on Oct 14, 2012 19:10:25 GMT -5
Well, what do ya all know --Sir Lancelot is not only valiant, he's also black.  |
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Post by CRAMBAM on Oct 15, 2012 6:19:19 GMT -5
For some reason, maybe it's the vibe of the show, that didn't bother me at all. It didn't come off as a PC casting, even though obviously it was. Probably because I watch Merlin, and Gwenivere is black there. Used to it.
The Perry White one bugged me a lot.
But last night's episode, once again, was awesome.
They definitely are moving in the right direction with Prince Charming and Henry.
Looking forward to more of that.
And Cora is an interesting character. It will be interesting when the inevitable happens, and she has her showdown with Regina.
But there is more to it than that. Where exactly did she go when Regina pushed her in the mirror?
If she was just within walking distance, or at least a short journey from everyone else, why didn't she come back? She clearly has her power.
About the only thing I didn't like was the ogre crushing Emma's gun. Would have liked to see her use it in a fashion that worked.
Not liking Mulan yet, but that could change.
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Post by StarFuryG7 on Oct 15, 2012 16:16:17 GMT -5
For some reason, maybe it's the vibe of the show, that didn't bother me at all. It didn't come off as a PC casting, even though obviously it was. Probably because I watch Merlin, and Gwenivere is black there. Used to it. |
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Post by CRAMBAM on Oct 16, 2012 7:37:00 GMT -5
Not completely--I am not happy over Perry White's race changing.
Still mad about Starbuck being a girl.
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Post by gavin1701 on Oct 24, 2012 18:09:45 GMT -5
I've just caught up with the first four this weekend. My theory based on the last episode is that Henry's father is Rumpelstilstkin's son and we will find him a bit older than Emma if he has lived outside of storybrook. He's possibly the man we saw in episode 1 that got an invititation to storybrook delivered by pigeon.
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Post by TrekBeatTK on Oct 25, 2012 7:27:24 GMT -5
The thing that bothers me with this show is how they sometimes play too freely with the original characters. Whether or not Captain Hook really even belongs in this universe, I was quite disappointed at his origin. I thought overall the story was interesting, and nice to see more of the other side of Rumplestilskin, but he should not have been the one who chopped off Hook's hand. That task belongs to Peter Pan, and that level of revisionism is one step too far for me. That's one of the primary tenets of the Pan mythology. I think the show could have worked just as well as a weird origin for Hook and for Smee and a set up for Peter (since he seems to possibly be Rumple's son) without doing the hand thing. This show is at its best when it bends the origins but doesn't break them. Making Red a werewolf is an interesting interpretation of the story's original ending where she gets eaten by the wolf. Doing Beauty and the Beast with Rumple as the Beast worked (and that nice continuation this time where he gives her a library!). But totally rewriting origins bothers me greatly, especially with characters who are not public domain folklore. At what point do the writers open themselves to lawsuits from the copyright holders of these books?
-TK
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Post by CRAMBAM on Oct 25, 2012 7:42:06 GMT -5
I think a lot of people are theorizing that the man in the first episode is Baelfire. In a way, it would be a bit disappointing since it is the obvious choice.
Now whether Rumple's son is also Henry's father would be up for debate too. It's an interesting theory, though I think that would be a bit too coincidental to work for me. I think they can do better than that. Plus, it seems that Henry's dad is a bit of a scumbag, and Baelfire shouldn't be a bad guy.
It seems that this universe is the Disney universe. All Disney characters seem to be fair game. Then again, it's just possible that any and all fictional characters are running around in some realm. In a way, it could be similar to Imagination Land from South Park.
So for all we know, Superman could be flying around in there.
As for Hook's hand, you have a fair point. I would expect to see Peter Pan at some point. A crocodile did eat Hook's hand, though you're right, Peter cut it off first. They set up Rumple as the crocodile, but Peter was absent.
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Post by TrekBeatTK on Oct 25, 2012 8:17:15 GMT -5
It seems that this universe is the Disney universe. All Disney characters seem to be fair game. Then again, it's just possible that any and all fictional characters are running around in some realm. In a way, it could be similar to Imagination Land from South Park. There's already been an oblique reference to Narnia too, what with the magical wardrobe. I do think that at some point there may be a lawsuit saying that Disney doesn't have the right to use books they option for one project in perpetuity. They already got in trouble with the Milne estate some years ago for the extent they've milked the Winnie the Pooh teat. As long as it stays primarily Disney though, does that mean we get characters from the Chronicles of Prydain too? As for Hook's hand, you have a fair point. I would expect to see Peter Pan at some point. A crocodile did eat Hook's hand, though you're right, Peter cut it off first. They set up Rumple as the crocodile, but Peter was absent. Yeah, even though it's a weird stretch I don't mind Rumple being the metaphorical crocodile. But the crocodile is not exactly the antagonist for Hook. Hook hates PAN for taking the hand and giving it to the croc. He hates the croc because it wants to eat him; and that fuels the hate for Pan even more. The crocodile is a ticking clock, a threat of imminent death and that metaphor could have worked well on this show. In a way it did, as Rumple returned years later to take back the rest of what he wants from Hook. But all this without Peter is a shame. -TK |
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Post by CRAMBAM on Oct 25, 2012 8:23:41 GMT -5
I guess anything that Disney made a movie about, they can use. Kind of like how they get to do direct to dvd sequels like Bambi 2: Electric Boogaloo, or Little Mermaid 2: The Wrath of Khan.
What I'm interested in is why some people were spared the curse. Why was Hook left behind but Smee not?
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Post by gavin1701 on Nov 2, 2012 10:40:58 GMT -5
Didn't they establish that certain lands were unaffected by the curse, rather than certain people. Which would suggest the location of the person was the reasoning and not the actual person themselves. Since Peter Pan isn't in storybrook then Neverland is possibly immune. We don't know if Hook and Smee were together when the curse hit.
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Post by StarFuryG7 on Nov 2, 2012 18:37:08 GMT -5
Didn't they establish that certain lands were unaffected by the curse, rather than certain people. |
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Post by gavin1701 on Nov 6, 2012 11:24:44 GMT -5
Emma's ex wasn't a bad guy after all.
Something about a recent episode got me thinking. Crambam and I had this discussion when the show first started and it was about the children. Recently the mad hatter reconciled with his daughter and she was still the age from Storybrook. Yet Henry had grown up in Storybrook alongside her. Why didn't anybody notice her not aging?
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Post by CRAMBAM on Nov 12, 2012 7:38:18 GMT -5
Clearly, they were all dealing with some big time fog.
I think Pinnocchio is a key here. He wrote the book, but how did he get it to Snow who gave it to Henry?
But yeah, the aging thing is something I hope they explain.
They were obviously going about their business in a fog, and somehow Storybrook, with few exceptions, was off the map.
Yet it couldn't be completely inaccessible to the outside world, because they had to get supplies from other towns. After all, where do they get food, gasoline, and other every day items?
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Post by gavin1701 on Feb 18, 2013 8:47:14 GMT -5
I've just caught up with the first four this weekend. My theory based on the last episode is that Henry's father is Rumpelstilstkin's son and we will find him a bit older than Emma if he has lived outside of storybrook. There you see, called it back in October way before we saw the older Bealfire ;D |
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Post by CRAMBAM on Feb 18, 2013 12:52:47 GMT -5
You and about 10 million others. In a way, it's disappointing that the obvious solution was the answer. But still a great show.
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Post by gavin1701 on Feb 19, 2013 10:32:55 GMT -5
I didn't see the other 999,999 people's posts on here also calling it  Not really disappointing. Storytelling at its best relates threads circumstances and situations to the bigger picture. When it's disjointed and random it has less value to both the overall story and the drama between characters. |
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Post by CRAMBAM on Feb 20, 2013 9:41:44 GMT -5
I think if you talked with anyone who watched the show regularly, you would see a lot of people figured Henry's dad could be Baelfire--maybe even before the start of this season.
I'm not a huge fan of that BECAUSE of that.
Right now, I am wondering what the deal is with Pinnochio. He hasn't been seen since a small shot of him blinking in an early episode this season. Where is he? It's obvious the writers are punishing Geppeto for his sin, but it will be a fun episode when they move forward with that plot.
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Post by StarFuryG7 on Feb 20, 2013 16:26:15 GMT -5
Right now, I am wondering what the deal is with Pinnochio. He hasn't been seen since a small shot of him blinking in an early episode this season. Where is he? It's obvious the writers are punishing Geppeto for his sin, but it will be a fun episode when they move forward with that plot.
And I recall a mention of Pinnochio having died earlier in the season, if I'm not mistaken.
Frankly, I think this show is also meandering, which is what tends to happen to series' of this type. |
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Post by CRAMBAM on Feb 20, 2013 17:34:26 GMT -5
Pinnochio isn't dead. In fact, they made it a point to show he's alive. He's just made of wood right now. They will get to it. Geppeto isn't a major role, and Continuum is in the can as far as I know.
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Post by StarFuryG7 on Feb 20, 2013 17:54:44 GMT -5
Pinnochio isn't dead. In fact, they made it a point to show he's alive. He's just made of wood right now. They will get to it. Geppeto isn't a major role, and Continuum is in the can as far as I know. I don't recall seeing Pinnochio since the beginning of the season, blinking in bed with his wooden legs. We saw Geppeto once, maybe two since then as I recall, but I may have missed something, especially if it was something shown coming back in from a commercial break if I had stepped out of the room, or if I had gotten a phone call and took it while the episode was airing We'll have to see how this show progresses. I'm not especially impressed by some of its developments this season. Once a series reaches a point where it seems the writers are just making things up as they move along, viewers tend to lose interest. I think it's ridiculous that Regina has apparently reconciled with her mother for instance, given what she did to her, and given that Regina then tried to do away with her the way she did. One would think the two would remain eternal enemies, and the point was made repeatedly over the course of the first season that the only person Regina still loved after she went dark was her father, and look at what she did to him. The show also tends to be too sappy for my tastes, despite the fact that it's fairytale stuff also intended for children (which is cause enough for me to dislike it actually). Give me "Game of Thrones" over OUAT any day. |
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Post by CRAMBAM on Feb 22, 2013 7:11:14 GMT -5
That is the last time we saw Pinnochio. Blinking on the bed. There was the flashback episode with Henry's dad/Baelfire.
I'm sure there will be a reuniting of the two.
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